Killing Time question.

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Hello Trek Lit gurus, oh wise ones of the pen/word processor.

What are the chances of the uncut, unexpurgated Killing Time by Della van Hise being republished. I have fond memories of the original, mistakenly released edition, and I would pay money, even in these downturned times to own a copy. Whenever I read the re-release, my brain still fills in the edits even after twenty odd years.

Could there ever be a Killing Time: Unrated Cut on the shop shelves? If you want to gauge the economics, you've got one potential customer here.

 

[Brendan Moody]

I can't see Pocket ever getting such a release approved or making money if they did, but the original edition isn't necessarily impossible to find. I found a copy at a used book store a few years back. As Steve Roby's invaluable Lost Books page says:

Copies of the original can still be found in used bookstores and at conventions, so this book isn't completely lost yet. If the cover has raised letters for the title, it's likely to be the original; if not, check anyway, because at least some copies without raised lettering have the unexpurgated text. Better yet, just check page 41 for a passage that begins, "I understand that you were probably playing with dolls and wearing lipstick until you were twenty!" That appears only in the original.

Customer-service oriented online used book sellers might be willing to check their copies for you.

 

[Therin of Andor]

What are the chances of the uncut, unexpurgated Killing Time by Della van Hise being republished.

Zilch. (It was supposedly recalled by Pocket Books because Paramount and the Star Trek Office had deemed those paragraphs unacceptable in a ST tie-in. But there were plenty of copies of the first printing around that were sold in regular bookshops the world over before the recall notice. Even then, it may have only been warehouse stock of the first printing that was recalled. I often see first editions in second hand shops, often for no more than a later edition.)

Likewise, I doubt we'll ever see "The War Virus", which was completed but never published, or the untrimmed/unrevised/unedited versions of any ST tie-in manuscripts. Unless someone ends up publishing "The God-Thing".

 

[Steve Roby]

What Brendan said, basically.

I only had the original and unexpurgated version for years. Around 2000 or so I decided to start looking for a copy of the corrected version, and most of the copies I found in used bookstores were actually the first printing. Had to look for a while to find the corrected version.

 

[JD]

I've never heard about this before, what had to be cut?

 

[Steve Roby]

I've never heard about this before, what had to be cut?

Lots of little bits and pieces that hinted at a romantic/sexual attraction between Kirk and Spock. From my Lost Books page, which Brendan quoted above: "There are at least fifty changes from the first version to the revised version, some as short as a single word, others as long as a paragraph or two. Most of the excisions involve scenes in which there is physical contact between Kirk and Spock (for example, describing the warmth of Spock's hand on Kirk's face during a mindmeld). But there was also a sentence that described Spock's realization that Kirk was the person Spock was meant to spend his life with."

 

[JD]

Wow, that's a little disturbing. How long did it take someone to catch this stuff? I'm shocked it made it through for even a little while.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Did the author ever make clear what her intent was with these passages? Was she actually trying to hint at something, or was it a case of people reading between the lines a little too hard?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Wow, that's a little disturbing. How long did it take someone to catch this stuff? I'm shocked it made it through for even a little while.

Supposedly the wrong set of proofs accidentally went to press, not the Star Trek Office approved set. Della Van Hise was already known as a K/S (Kirk and Spock "slash") fanfic author, so many fans were hoping for some K/S easter eggs and got more than anyone bargained for.

I was told that additional naughty chapters were available (as fanfic) for the four Marshak & Culbreath licensed novels as well. K/S fans knew where to buy 'em.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

So at one time the people in charge of the Trek books were willing to hire known pornographic "slash" writers to work on official Trek books?

Wow.

 

[Therin of Andor]

So at one time the people in charge of the Trek books were willing to hire known pornographic "slash" writers to work on official Trek books?

Well, the K/S fans knew, but the pro editors of the day didn't follow amateur fanzines.

Numerous ST literati got there start in ST fanfic, but not all were necessarily known for writing K/S. Jean Lorrah (very prolific Sarek & Amanda fanfic writer, some of which was quite racy, I understand), Paula Block (her story is in SNW volume I), Sonni Cooper, Melinda Snodgrass (I think, IIRC), probably Barbara Hambly and AC Crispin... all wrote fanfic or, at least, semi-pro fic in their early days and took a chance with a spec manuscript. Jacqueline Lichtenberg's and Jean Lorrah's "Sime~Gen" material was a sort of distant spin-off from K/S fanfic, IIRC. And Pocket editor Margaret Clark was part of first fandom.

I recall that K/S writer and famous filker, Leslie Fish, had a go at sending in at least one ST manuscript. Jean Lorrah used some of Fish's Andorian fanfic history of the Andorians as a template for the Theskian in "TNG: Metamorphosis". And remember that several early fanzines had become immortalized in "Star Trek Lives!", and a few fanfic authors' short stories were in two volumes of Bantam's "Star Trek: The New Voyages".

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Oh I know that a lot of them got started in fan fiction, I was just surprised that slash writers would ever be given a chance. If the powers that be weren't aware of it though, that explains it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Oh I know that a lot of them got started in fan fiction, I was just surprised that slash writers would ever be given a chance. If the powers that be weren't aware of it though, that explains it.

I'm sure many pro male authors got their start with the "Penthouse" lettercol. You learn to write by writing often, and exploring many genres.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Somehow I don't think that was what Gene was intending with the whole "Where No Man has Gone Before" idea.

 

[Lee]

I'm reading Killing Time right now. I only have the expurgated version, but I can testify that even without the parts they edited out, there's still a heavy K/S vibe/undertone (although, to be fair, I haven't read any actual K/S so I don't speak from experience).

There are frequent long, searching glances between Kirk and Spock. There are many references to the effect that Kirk and Spock are each other's "ideal companion" (I don't remember offhand if those are the words used, but that's certainly the implication). There's a brief sentence referencing T'Pring, but other than that, I'm about halfway through and there's been no mention of any attraction to women for either Kirk or Spock.

I like the book. The K/S undertone gives it a sort of hallucinatory quality, which is actually appropriate given the plot. That said, despite being a gay man, I don't think I could ever get into K/S fiction. I prefer to read fiction that at least attempts to present the characters in a way consistent with how they appeared onscreen. I'd much prefer to read Trek novels that have new characters who happen to be gay, like Section 31: Rogue, which I enjoyed very much.

I'd be interested in seeing a compilation of the cuts that were made.

BTW, I'm really surprised at how much the plot of the new movie seems to follow the plot, or at least the setup, of Killing Time. I wonder if Della Van Hise would have a case, if she chose to pursue it.

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ Even if what you allege is true -- which remains to be seen -- Della Van Hise would have no "case," as she signed away all rights to everything in Killing Time at the time it was commissioned. CBS/Paramount owns everything in every Trek novel (lock, stock, and phaser barrel, as KRAD would say).

 

[Christopher]

^^Right. This just came up elsewhere online with regard to The Dark Knight; author F. Paul Wilson has posted his opinion that the version of the Joker in that movie bears a striking resemblance to the approach he took in his story "Definitive Therapy" in the anthology The Further Adventures of the Joker. However, in response to fans who've e-mailed him suggesting he should sue, he points out that he couldn't because it was work-for-hire -- that "When you play in someone else's sandbox, they get to keep your castle." And he doesn't want to anyway, because he's more thrilled by the tribute than offended. Which is really the right reaction in a case like this, I think. If you do tie-in fiction, you know going in (unless you're Harlan Ellison) that you're doing it for somebody else, and if you enjoy doing tie-in fiction, you're probably doing it out of love for the series. So if others involved in that same vast collaborative enterprise (pun intended) take notice of your own contribution and deem it worthy of emulation, that's something to be proud of.

Besides, it seems to me that the only common element between Killing Time and STJJ is that they both involve Romulans going back in time to change history. But the nature of the historical change, its degree of success, and the time frame in which it unfolds are completely different, as is everything else. If there were any direct inspiration from Killing Time, the resemblance would probably be considerably less cursory.

I mean, given how many sci-fi stories are about "___ goes back in time to change history," and how few major TOS-era bad-guy groups there are, is it really at all unlikely that two different creators of TOS-era fiction would independently plug "Romulans" into that blank?

 

[Therin of Andor]

I wonder if Della Van Hise would have a case, if she chose to pursue it.

A case for what? She signed over all rights to her story when she signed her contract with Pocket Books.

The film's writers have already acknowledged several Pocket novels as inspiration, but so far not KT.

 

[Julio Angel Ortiz]

I have to admit, I was looking forward to reading the author's thoughts in Voyages of Imagination a few years back. Unfortunately, the author "could not be contacted."

 

[DimesDan]

BTW, I'm really surprised at how much the plot of the new movie seems to follow the plot, or at least the setup, of Killing Time. I wonder if Della Van Hise would have a case, if she chose to pursue it.

Only in........