Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galaxy
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Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
This is beyond exciting. Look how much astronomy has changed in just 20 years! It's really possible that we might not be alone. Even if it's only single-celled organisms out there, we may not be alone!
This is beyond exciting. Look how much astronomy has changed in just 20 years! It's really possible that we might not be alone. Even if it's only single-celled organisms out there, we may not be alone!
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
These are exciting steps. I always hate to be the killjoy in these threads, but even if we detect and confirm through gravitational wobble, stellar transit and eventually visual imagery, a planet of 1 Earth Mass, 1 Earth Atmosphere orbiting a main sequence yellow dwarf at 1 AU, and it has one moon-massed companion, it doesn't mean life.
Sheer numbers suggest we are not alone. They also suggest we're likely never to know for sure. I'm harshing your buzz, I know, and I love what we're finding these days, but I think we have to stay clear-headed about it.
These are exciting steps. I always hate to be the killjoy in these threads, but even if we detect and confirm through gravitational wobble, stellar transit and eventually visual imagery, a planet of 1 Earth Mass, 1 Earth Atmosphere orbiting a main sequence yellow dwarf at 1 AU, and it has one moon-massed companion, it doesn't mean life.
Sheer numbers suggest we are not alone. They also suggest we're likely never to know for sure. I'm harshing your buzz, I know, and I love what we're finding these days, but I think we have to stay clear-headed about it.
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
You're absolutely right. Reading the article, I got so excited that I lost my head.
You're absolutely right. Reading the article, I got so excited that I lost my head.
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
Keep the excitement. Loose your head for a bit. The night that the Huygens Probe landed on Titan, I stayed up for like 30 hours straight following every scrap of information on various science sites, drooling in anticipation over the first raw pictures.
Get excited, but stay grounded.
Keep the excitement. Loose your head for a bit. The night that the Huygens Probe landed on Titan, I stayed up for like 30 hours straight following every scrap of information on various science sites, drooling in anticipation over the first raw pictures.
Get excited, but stay grounded.
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
Not really, I think. You're in a giant warehouse full of boxes. Each box is different, and you don't even know how many boxes there are. You have opened one box, and it contains a teddy bear, but you also don't know for sure why exactly it is in that specific box, and you don't know if another, identical box must contain another teddy bear. That's not statistically significant at all. You can't possibly determine the (relative) frequency, so how can you give a probability?
Believing in alien life is exactly just that at the moment.
Not really, I think. You're in a giant warehouse full of boxes. Each box is different, and you don't even know how many boxes there are. You have opened one box, and it contains a teddy bear, but you also don't know for sure why exactly it is in that specific box, and you don't know if another, identical box must contain another teddy bear. That's not statistically significant at all. You can't possibly determine the (relative) frequency, so how can you give a probability?
Believing in alien life is exactly just that at the moment.
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
Believing in alien life probably isn't crazy. There's gotta be other forms of life out there. Just look at how diverse life is on this planet. You really think it can't grow everywhere else? Believing alien life has come to this planet is probably crazy. Flying through space from system to system to system is probably crazy. But actually believing life exists on other planets in some form is just looking at life on this planet really. It's just so diverse that it's impossible to think it can't happen elsewhere where conditions are right.
Believing in alien life probably isn't crazy. There's gotta be other forms of life out there. Just look at how diverse life is on this planet. You really think it can't grow everywhere else? Believing alien life has come to this planet is probably crazy. Flying through space from system to system to system is probably crazy. But actually believing life exists on other planets in some form is just looking at life on this planet really. It's just so diverse that it's impossible to think it can't happen elsewhere where conditions are right.
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
^ QFT. A pattern cannot be extrapolated based on one sole example. The discovery of single-celled organisms on another planet or a moon would be historic, though.
^ QFT. A pattern cannot be extrapolated based on one sole example. The discovery of single-celled organisms on another planet or a moon would be historic, though.
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
Didn't we already find a meteorite from Mars that had a dead single celled organism? That alone says that life can form somewhere out there.
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
That was a misdiagnosis if I recall. Also, (and probably incidentally,) although it may have been on Mars it was certainly on Earth, where there are plenty of single-celled organisms.
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
Well, we know that life arose on Earth very shortly after the conditions allowed it to do so. Of course, it's the only sample we have, but that suggests that it might happen fairly easily given the right conditions. While conditions on this planet are no doubt rare, it would be arrogant to think they must be unique. And we don't know how many sets of conditions will allow for life to develop.
Perhaps "likely" isn't the right word, but I don't think anyone could argue that the idea isn't "reasonable".
Well, we know that life arose on Earth very shortly after the conditions allowed it to do so. Of course, it's the only sample we have, but that suggests that it might happen fairly easily given the right conditions. While conditions on this planet are no doubt rare, it would be arrogant to think they must be unique. And we don't know how many sets of conditions will allow for life to develop.
Perhaps "likely" isn't the right word, but I don't think anyone could argue that the idea isn't "reasonable".
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
The problem is, we don't know anything about the right conditions. We don't even understand the sample, so we can't make any predictions.
Arrogance has nothing to do with it. It's just a question of knowledge. Right now, it's just a single coincidence.
But many things can be considered "reasonable" if you don't know all the facts (which is the case).
In my opinion, believing in alien life requires just the same level of faith as believing in a god who created sun, earth and human life, or even the whole universe. For all we know, it could very be, until we know better. The problem is that you can't prove the non-existence of something. But if you don't know for sure, but still believe in it or hope for it, it's just that: faith.
The problem is, we don't know anything about the right conditions. We don't even understand the sample, so we can't make any predictions.
Arrogance has nothing to do with it. It's just a question of knowledge. Right now, it's just a single coincidence.
But many things can be considered "reasonable" if you don't know all the facts (which is the case).
In my opinion, believing in alien life requires just the same level of faith as believing in a god who created sun, earth and human life, or even the whole universe. For all we know, it could very be, until we know better. The problem is that you can't prove the non-existence of something. But if you don't know for sure, but still believe in it or hope for it, it's just that: faith.
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
Well, I dont' really see the connection between the two, but no, they don't require the same amounts of faith.
First, we know that life exists in the universe. We know that. We have a sample. We have no evidence for a god.
And I don't "believe" in life elsewhere. I don't "hope" for it, as you should well know by now. My hoping wouldn't change the reality. I think the probability is high. Some disagree and think the probability is low. That's fine.
Actually, we know quite a bit... it's more accurate to say we have a lot of highly educated guesses. You strike me as someone who hasn't studied these things in much detail.
You seem to see everything in black and white. The odds are not always 100% or 0%. In fact, they are rarely either. There is a vast realm of probability.
It is possible that there is a "god". I can't give you the probabilty on that. No one can.
I can say, however, that the probability that "God" chose to reveal himself only to middle eastern Bronze age tribes and cares what I do with my penis, where I plant my crops and/or what kind of threads my clothes are made out of... this being the same God who created all of the cosmos... that probabilty seems quite low. It's simply absurd. Impossible? No. Aliens visitors seem far more likely than that. I don't think either is true.
There are so FEW things about which we know all the facts... if any! Not everything is "Yes" or "No". Most of life is some degree of "maybe".
You don't seem to get that.
Well, I dont' really see the connection between the two, but no, they don't require the same amounts of faith.
First, we know that life exists in the universe. We know that. We have a sample. We have no evidence for a god.
And I don't "believe" in life elsewhere. I don't "hope" for it, as you should well know by now. My hoping wouldn't change the reality. I think the probability is high. Some disagree and think the probability is low. That's fine.
Actually, we know quite a bit... it's more accurate to say we have a lot of highly educated guesses. You strike me as someone who hasn't studied these things in much detail.
You seem to see everything in black and white. The odds are not always 100% or 0%. In fact, they are rarely either. There is a vast realm of probability.
It is possible that there is a "god". I can't give you the probabilty on that. No one can.
I can say, however, that the probability that "God" chose to reveal himself only to middle eastern Bronze age tribes and cares what I do with my penis, where I plant my crops and/or what kind of threads my clothes are made out of... this being the same God who created all of the cosmos... that probabilty seems quite low. It's simply absurd. Impossible? No. Aliens visitors seem far more likely than that. I don't think either is true.
There are so FEW things about which we know all the facts... if any! Not everything is "Yes" or "No". Most of life is some degree of "maybe".
You don't seem to get that.
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
Just look at some of our science and you can see obvious things that may never be explained completely. Such as gravity, weather, Einstein's Theory of Relativity. And a lot of other things. There's not always it'll work or won't work element to everything there's somewhere in between.
Just look at some of our science and you can see obvious things that may never be explained completely. Such as gravity, weather, Einstein's Theory of Relativity. And a lot of other things. There's not always it'll work or won't work element to everything there's somewhere in between.
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
You might read up a bit on the Fermi problem, the Drake equation and other related stuff before you again imply I'm an idiot.
It's all just a bunch of wild guesses and hypothesis. Until we actually FIND extraterrestrial life, it's not any more reasonable to assume its existence than to assume the existence of supernatural stuff, or FTL travel, or Dark Matter being made of cheese, and other stuff.
It's funny, because science fiction in the last hundred years has made the thought that Aliens exist presentable. People believe Alien life exists WITHOUT any evidence. People report of alien abductions just as they report about visions from God. The idea "There just must be something out there" is similar to "There just must be a purpose in life". There are many parallels to religious and esoteric behavior.
You might read up a bit on the Fermi problem, the Drake equation and other related stuff before you again imply I'm an idiot.
It's all just a bunch of wild guesses and hypothesis. Until we actually FIND extraterrestrial life, it's not any more reasonable to assume its existence than to assume the existence of supernatural stuff, or FTL travel, or Dark Matter being made of cheese, and other stuff.
It's funny, because science fiction in the last hundred years has made the thought that Aliens exist presentable. People believe Alien life exists WITHOUT any evidence. People report of alien abductions just as they report about visions from God. The idea "There just must be something out there" is similar to "There just must be a purpose in life". There are many parallels to religious and esoteric behavior.
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Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
What's Fermi? Is that a type of cheese? Drake equation? Never heard of it. Is that the a2 + b2 = c2 thing?
I never implied you're an idiot.
If you got "You're an idiot" out of that, I think you're a bit touchy.
Packers 33, Steelers 24. That's a wild guess.
That is incorrect. I'm sorry if this is calling you an idiot, but you just don't seem to understand probability. It is highly improbable that dark matter is a big hunk Fermi cheese. Many very smart, well educated people think the probability of extraterrestrial life is highly improbable. That's okay. Two smart people can look at the same data and come up with two different, but equally valid conclusions. That being said, not ALL different ideas are equally valid, or more to our point here, equally probable.
It is not equally valid to think that fairies could possibly exist as it is to think that ET could possibly exist. None of us can prove a negative in either case, but one is statistically more likely than the other.
You also seem to have an issue with "allowing for the possibility" and "believing in". I don't think "there must be something out there". I think it's PROBABLE. It could very well turn out that is not the case. Thinking the probability to be high is not the same as saying "this must be true."
I do not BELIEVE in extraterrestrial life. I do not BELIEVE in anything. Everything falls into one of three categories:
1. Things I know.
2. Things I think I know.
3. Things I don't know.
That's it. Everything fits into one of those three. I have no "beliefs". Quit trying to lay beliefs on me. I don't have them!
What's Fermi? Is that a type of cheese? Drake equation? Never heard of it. Is that the a2 + b2 = c2 thing?
I never implied you're an idiot.
If you got "You're an idiot" out of that, I think you're a bit touchy.
Packers 33, Steelers 24. That's a wild guess.
That is incorrect. I'm sorry if this is calling you an idiot, but you just don't seem to understand probability. It is highly improbable that dark matter is a big hunk Fermi cheese. Many very smart, well educated people think the probability of extraterrestrial life is highly improbable. That's okay. Two smart people can look at the same data and come up with two different, but equally valid conclusions. That being said, not ALL different ideas are equally valid, or more to our point here, equally probable.
It is not equally valid to think that fairies could possibly exist as it is to think that ET could possibly exist. None of us can prove a negative in either case, but one is statistically more likely than the other.
You also seem to have an issue with "allowing for the possibility" and "believing in". I don't think "there must be something out there". I think it's PROBABLE. It could very well turn out that is not the case. Thinking the probability to be high is not the same as saying "this must be true."
I do not BELIEVE in extraterrestrial life. I do not BELIEVE in anything. Everything falls into one of three categories:
1. Things I know.
2. Things I think I know.
3. Things I don't know.
That's it. Everything fits into one of those three. I have no "beliefs". Quit trying to lay beliefs on me. I don't have them!
Re: Kepler space telescope spots five Earth-sized planets in our galax
Well, I think I ran out of arguments.
Well, I think I ran out of arguments.
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