Just rewatched Dark Frontier wow

[Voth commando1]

People are incredibly vicious towards Voyager as a series and I just can't see why.

I just happened to rewatch Dark frontier the whole two-parter. Excellent score, heart gushing tension, great pace, awwww worthy heartwarming last scene, wonderful use of flashbacks.

To a point or two-Voyager is often said to have emasculated the borg as threat. People who say this obviously haven't seen or are too blinded by hostility to the show to see how menacing the borg are.

When I heard that species the queen orders Seven to assimilate's screams it just shook me out of my seat. Hearing them say "trillions of drones" with an insidious queen and a truly vast infrastructure. They adapt extremely quickly and apparently will assimilate species at their leisure.

Another interesting point that the Queen tells Seven is that she was allowed to be let go of so they could better understand the human race-I don't think this assertion was ever directly refuted and was very interesting as well as the virus assimilation strategy-cool and insidious idea-like it.

All in all great great Voyager outing.

What are everyone else's opinion's?

 

[Smoked Salmon]

People are incredibly vicious towards Voyager as a series and I just can't see why.

My biggest complaint with the show was that it had a blank slate and really should've gone back to the wonder of TOS. Instead the writing was a lot weaker than on DS9 and TNG, and some of the characters, in my opinion, not quite as engaging and developed.

I just happened to rewatch Dark frontier the whole two-parter. Excellent score, heart gushing tension, great pace, awwww worthy heartwarming last scene, wonderful use of flashbacks.

To a point or two-Voyager is often said to have emasculated the borg as threat. People who say this obviously haven't seen or are too blinded by hostility to the show to see how menacing the borg are.

I think the problem is that if, like me, you had watched all the Borg stories when they came out, by the time Voyager rolled around the menace was gone because we'd seen the TNG crew explore all the ways to defeat them and we'd even seen what happened when you remove a Borg. For me the menace was gone by the time we got Scorpion, let alone Dark Frontier....and like I say, Voyager should've been a blank slate, but chose instead to be TNG-lite, and recycling TNG's most popular alien menace was a symptom of that.

Voyager's Borg episodes aren't bad episodes per se. It's just by the time they did them I just felt "been there, done that".

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

I love Dark Frontier. I may even prefer it over Scorpion, maybe.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

I think of not lying by asserting that all 2 - parts episodes were splendidly made (scripts, directing, acting, in the exception for me of Endgame whose level had declined from part 1 to part 2, without mentionning some weaknesses (the stupidity of C/7, a slightly too abrupt finale to my taste and the questions on the future of each left unsettled with no hope of a tv movie to get some answers). I would have liked that the same effort of writing for 3/4 of the episodes of 45 minutes to be made -> that things are clear: I like ST: Voyager a lot, to the point to have watched the whole series and purchased its 7 DVD sets (what is very rare with me!), like to participate regularly in this forum but, it doesn't prevent me from being honest by saying that, on 172 episodes which counted the series, more than half are bad because essentially, badly written ... and some are, well, just badly acted!

 

[Sophie74656]

I happen to really enjoy all of the Borg episodes. I know many people say it was too much or that Voyager weakened them but I really disagre with that. They did get more development on Voyager but I think that made them even scarier.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

I happen to really enjoy all of the Borg episodes. I know many people say it was too much or that Voyager weakened them but I really disagre with that. They did get more development on Voyager but I think that made them even scarier.

I agree, the Borg episodes were pretty good, from Scorpion to Endgame (I wrote in my precedent message what I thought of being the weak points but the Borg SL was good -> the long and personal guerrilla thrown by the Queen towards Janeway, since the arrival of Seven aboard of Voyager in s4, could only finish by the death of one of the two in the finale of S7) but my favorite story is the one with "One" (4x25) -> honestly, I would have preferred to see him surviving at the end of the episode and to see the bonding mother/child (like I liked to follow the bonding mother/daughter with Janeway/Seven), instead of having to endure the Borg children in s6 and s7. Icheb was an interesting addition but with One, it would have been more emotional, I guess.

 

[Voth commando1]

My biggest complaint with the show was that it had a blank slate and really should've gone back to the wonder of TOS. Instead the writing was a lot weaker than on DS9 and TNG, and some of the characters, in my opinion, not quite as engaging and developed.

I think the problem is that if, like me, you had watched all the Borg stories when they came out, by the time Voyager rolled around the menace was gone because we'd seen the TNG crew explore all the ways to defeat them and we'd even seen what happened when you remove a Borg. For me the menace was gone by the time we got Scorpion, let alone Dark Frontier....and like I say, Voyager should've been a blank slate, but chose instead to be TNG-lite, and recycling TNG's most popular alien menace was a symptom of that.

Voyager's Borg episodes aren't bad episodes per se. It's just by the time they did them I just felt "been there, done that".

I believe it was stated in TNG even the Borg were centred/originated in the Delta Quadrant and Voyager's whole premise involved trekking through the Delta Quadrant. So it seems to me they should have run into the Borg and some point or another-it would have made less sense for them not to.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

I believe it was stated in TNG even the Borg were centred/originated in the Delta Quadrant and Voyager's whole premise involved trekking through the Delta Quadrant. So it seems to me they should have run into the Borg and some point or another-it would have made less sense for them not to.

Should've run into them, yes. But they basically became the villains of the show, which is what I'm talking about.

Plus, the Delta Quadrant is by no means a small area of space. Just because the Borg are there somewhere, it doesn't mean that Voyager would happen upon them. Perhaps the best way of approaching it would've been to have have simply hinted at their presence in the region and then finally showed them in the final season. As it is we didn't really feel their impact in that part of space in between their appearances, and you'd have thought that such a powerful race would have all but devastated the region they were in - another reason why I would've preferred them not hit Borg space.

 

[Sophie74656]

Right in TNG, Q sends the Enterprise into the Delta Quadrant to show them the Borg. So I agree that since Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant of course they ran into the Borg...especially If you consider the popularity of the Borg episodes on TNG and the movie First Contact.

Though I did find it interesting that the Equinox never encountered them

 

[Thomas Eugene]

I love almost everything Voyager including the Borg.
I don't know if the Borg were weakened on VOY or not ... all I know is that Picard and his whole crew make me fall asleep after 5 minutes ... whereas Voyager is interesting to the point of fascinating. The very few Borg episodes I saw on TNG (the one when they meet them for the first time plus the two-parter when Picard becomes Borg) were boring ... Yawn.
First Contact was more enjoyable but even that one never came up to the level of Borg episodes on VOY.
On VOY, I enjoy all the Borg episodes from UNITY to ENDGAME and I've never felt that these episodes are not exciting enough. Whenever our crew set foot aboard a Borg cube, my adrenaline levels just soar and I can't let down my guard for a second the episodes are so exciting. My favourite one is SCORPION.
Also, I've never felt for a second that they are overused. TBH, I could have done with three times as many Borg episodes on VOY as we got and still wouldn't have found them boring.

 

[Catarina]

I prefer the casting of this family over the one we saw in Raven.

Sometimes it felt a bit cheesy with Collective, and in Unimatrix Zero with those really awful renditions of dead heads on a stake scenes and all the heavy green lighting but it's not a deal breaker. I am one who really enjoyed this series and defend it (as well as poke fun and search for logic)

 

[stardream]

hough I did find it interesting that the Equinox never encountered them

As did I.

 

[fireproof78]

Dark Frontier was well done, as a standalone episode. I think it showcases the horror that the Borg are to the galaxy and how the assimilation process is so terrifying. I think that it also showcases Seven's gains and losses. No matter how much I don't care for the character, her changes are certainly are interesting, from a psychological point of view. Not likable, per se, but interesting.

My only complaint is that Voyager is able to breech Borg space and retrieve Seven with little issue. That's when I felt like the Borg were depowered, but the overall all story is well done.

 

[Ghost]

Sorry OP, but looking back I think Dark Frontier started the trend of weakening the Borg and also making them out quite illogical such as the Borg Queen's interest/obsession with Seven of Nine. (why would this individual be special compared to the billions the Collective consists off)
I really wish the Borg Queen was not brought back after First Contact.

To me the Borg Collective was still a threat in "Scorpion 1&2" . Remember, it is an almost Lovecraftian/Cthulhu Mythos type species from a complete different universe that can not only match the Borg but actually take them on and decimate them.
And they are in many ways as worse as the Borg, seeing the life of our universe as some sort of contamination.

Voyager could still not take on the Borg and sought a way to avoid the Collective while crossing a section of their space.
In "Dark Frontier" they could actually now destroy smaller Borg ships and even planned to infiltrate a Borg ship and steal technology from them.
Or even fly into the heart of Borg space with a glorified shuttle just to try to extract one individual from the Borg's unicomplex.

So no, for me "Dark Frontier" is when the Borg was seriously weakened as the ultimate other, an intelligence so vast and different that it barely notices anything below it.

 

[Tracy Trek]

Was it in Dark Frontier where Seven is shown her assimilated father? That is a moment that stands out in the series for me in regards to Seven's character arc.

 

[The Lonely Man]

Was it in Dark Frontier where Seven is shown her assimilated father? That is a moment that stands out in the series for me in regards to Seven's character arc.

Sure is. I was always slightly surprised Seven didn't try to convince Janeway to attempt to free him from the collective as well.

 

[stardream]

Sorry OP, but looking back I think Dark Frontier started the trend of weakening the Borg and also making them out quite illogical such as the Borg Queen's interest/obsession with Seven of Nine. (why would this individual be special compared to the billions the Collective consists off)
I really wish the Borg Queen was not brought back after First Contact.

To me the Borg Collective was still a threat in "Scorpion 1&2" . Remember, it is an almost Lovecraftian/Cthulhu Mythos type species from a complete different universe that can not only match the Borg but actually take them on and decimate them.
And they are in many ways as worse as the Borg, seeing the life of our universe as some sort of contamination.

Voyager could still not take on the Borg and sought a way to avoid the Collective while crossing a section of their space.
In "Dark Frontier" they could actually now destroy smaller Borg ships and even planned to infiltrate a Borg ship and steal technology from them.
Or even fly into the heart of Borg space with a glorified shuttle just to try to extract one individual from the Borg's unicomplex.

So no, for me "Dark Frontier" is when the Borg was seriously weakened as the ultimate other, an intelligence so vast and different that it barely notices anything below it.

I understand that point of view but for me personally the episode that weakened the Borg the most for me would be Unimatrix Zero. I wish the writers had stuck with the original plan of a borg civil war involving Seven's father instead of that silly love story and the even sillier fake assimilation.

Dark Frontier is an enjoyable watch but then I'm not watching it for the Borg...I'm watching it for Seven's journey and the whole heist idea.

 

[Sophie74656]

I think the episode that weakened the Borg the most was the one with Hugh, in TNG

 

[timtonruben359]

I believe it was stated in TNG even the Borg were centred/originated in the Delta Quadrant and Voyager's whole premise involved trekking through the Delta Quadrant. So it seems to me they should have run into the Borg and some point or another-it would have made less sense for them not to.

Although discussed throughout the fandom and Trek publications for a number of years, it wasn't until First Contact that it was firmly established on screen that the Borg's native territory is the Delta Quadrant through Dr. Crusher's line of: "but in the 21st century the Borg are still in the Delta Quadrant."

 

[Voth commando1]

Although discussed throughout the fandom and Trek publications for a number of years, it wasn't until First Contact that it was firmly established on screen that the Borg's native territory is the Delta Quadrant through Dr. Crusher's line of: "but in the 21st century the Borg are still in the Delta Quadrant."

It was a TNG movie then same
Point same effect