If they did make new series one day after ds9/voy would anyone like to see a plotline where there is a war going on between various species and the individual borg from descent and the collective. Could be cool and you could even have hugh as like a leader or something.
Just an idea
- Thread starter Iceburgeruk
- Start date
Maybe as a 2 parter but not much beyond that. The Borg are just too played out for a major storyline.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
I think an interesting plotline would be a war between the Klingons and the Romulans with the Federation under pressure from the Klingons to join the war due to the Klingon/Federation Alliance, in the meantime the Cardassians are undergoing reforms in order to join the Federation.
If a war in Trek is done the way it was in DS9, then I don't ever want to see one again.
One episode of effects laden battles, followed by six episodes where the war is virtually unmentioned.
One episode where the Jem'hadar are murdering Starfleet cadets by wiping out their escape pods...........next episode features Quark wearing a dress.
One episode of effects laden battles, followed by six episodes where the war is virtually unmentioned.
One episode where the Jem'hadar are murdering Starfleet cadets by wiping out their escape pods...........next episode features Quark wearing a dress.
DS9 was only partly serialized. Any future Trek series should be wholly serialized in the sense that past events are never ignored or forgotten. They might not be relevant to any given episode, but never forgotten.
And if the Borg are ever reintroduced to Star Trek, they need to be remorseless, almost impossible to beat, and used sparingly. Assimilation should be irreversible, NO exceptions, and at least one popular & beloved main character should be depicted as being assimilated irreversibly. Otherwise, the Borg will continue to be a joke and a cheap plot device.
And if the Borg are ever reintroduced to Star Trek, they need to be remorseless, almost impossible to beat, and used sparingly. Assimilation should be irreversible, NO exceptions, and at least one popular & beloved main character should be depicted as being assimilated irreversibly. Otherwise, the Borg will continue to be a joke and a cheap plot device.
Ah, forget reboot-to-dangerous Borg.
The new Borg should be pathetic extremists a pale shadow of their former selves after having been bashed around so much. We can then have an episode where the Borg fanatics are prosleytizing and offering voluntary assimilations. What does the Feds do when this fad catches on when desperate lonely people fling themselves at the collective mind?
The new Borg should be pathetic extremists a pale shadow of their former selves after having been bashed around so much. We can then have an episode where the Borg fanatics are prosleytizing and offering voluntary assimilations. What does the Feds do when this fad catches on when desperate lonely people fling themselves at the collective mind?
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
The Borg ceased to be a real threat the moment that they brought Picard back.
Had they had him irrevocably transformed... essentially "dead" but with his presence still felt... the dramatic impact would have been orders of magnitude greater.
But they chickened out. They set up the perfect "exit strategy" and could have resulted in real growth and change in the series. But they were too timid to actually follow through on one of the best "setups" that TNG ever had.
^
It's a dramatic cop-out, but a good trade-off. The Borg were going to be defeated at the end anyway and thus less dangerous by default. Had Picard not been saved the ending of BOBW would have been more meaningful, but it would have damaged the series as a whole - Picard was easily one of the key characters on the show. All in exchange for what - a better two-parter ending and a bit more dread when the Borg show up next time, a year or two later?
TNG could have certainly stood to have more growth and change, but not the dehabilitating kind.
It's a dramatic cop-out, but a good trade-off. The Borg were going to be defeated at the end anyway and thus less dangerous by default. Had Picard not been saved the ending of BOBW would have been more meaningful, but it would have damaged the series as a whole - Picard was easily one of the key characters on the show. All in exchange for what - a better two-parter ending and a bit more dread when the Borg show up next time, a year or two later?
TNG could have certainly stood to have more growth and change, but not the dehabilitating kind.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
I was very disappointed that they didn't get rid of Picard at that point. I felt very disappointed by what we had gotten from Stewart in season 2 (sounded like he had a cold or was on coke for a number of shows, though that may just have been him being exhausted by bad scripts, a la Scheider on seaQuest), and was only intermittently impressed with him during season 3 (which is still my favorite TNG season by far, I guess because they didn't have time to rewrite everything to death during that time.)
I also had gone from thinking Frakes was one of the worst actors I'd ever seen (based on TNG first season) to really seeing charm and some talent once he grew the beard. I think they could have really done a great series with Riker in command, and that's what I hoped for (though never really expected.)
They did get better writing for Stewart in later seasons, and some of the things he did were things that Frakes couldn't have hoped to have ever done as well, so maybe it was just as well, but I still kinda wish for the Riker/Capt thing, just to see how it would have gone (just as I still wish somebody would use PLANET OF THE TITANS as a basis for a trek movie.)
I also had gone from thinking Frakes was one of the worst actors I'd ever seen (based on TNG first season) to really seeing charm and some talent once he grew the beard. I think they could have really done a great series with Riker in command, and that's what I hoped for (though never really expected.)
They did get better writing for Stewart in later seasons, and some of the things he did were things that Frakes couldn't have hoped to have ever done as well, so maybe it was just as well, but I still kinda wish for the Riker/Capt thing, just to see how it would have gone (just as I still wish somebody would use PLANET OF THE TITANS as a basis for a trek movie.)
Without Stewart at that point the series would have been crippled. TPTB knew it.
We might not even be here discusing Trek if they got rid of Stewart.
Indeed. I might not even be here.
And trevanian, must disagree with you there. Even when the script was terrible - and in the second season, that was often the case - Stewart turned in a good performance. Frakes was okay, but IMHO not lead potential. For me, Picard was TNG. Also Data and Worf, but Picard was the lynchpin.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Kegek Kringle said:
Indeed. I might not even be here.
Maybe it is because when I look at Stewart I see a bald nearly-there Timothy Dalton, but I just see the guy as somewhat limited as a film actor (I like Dalton a lot better.) In pre-trek stuff, I liked Stewart alot (he taught a semester at my roommate's university, and from what I heard he was terrific there as well, in 1980 or 19810, and I think he was the glue that held some of first season together, or maybe his presence made some of the other folks mature.
But for me, Stewart has serious trouble conveying emotion credibly, perhaps even as bad as Shatner some of the time (I find his histrionics in SAREK and FIRST CONTACT to be nearly as bad as alltimeclassic Shatstuff), so of course I'm gonna think TNG could have been more interesting without him.
They might have had to deal more thoroughly with science fiction concepts, instead of just throwing them away like the dyson sphere in RELICS. Or they might have created a better ensemble feeling, which is something DS9 nearly always had. I've always thought that if they had dumped Sirtis in season 1 and Stewart in Season 4, I'd probably own some TNG tv dvds by now.
I think the short version of what I'm trying to say is that TNG would have been a different show without Stewart's Picard, and I would probably have appreciated the difference.
'Sarek' was superb, a highlight of the series. In 'First Contact' made the best out of somewhat out-of-character characterisation.
As far as conveying emotion goes, I think only Dorn really rivalled him in the TNG cast (Spiner may have had that ability but never got to show it). Frakes gave a considerably flatter performance most of the time. He's alright, and he carried many individual episodes well - including 'Frame of Mind', a personal favourite - but he's not half the leading man Picard is. Levar Burton was, of course, criminally underused - but with his boundless charisma he was well cast as the likeable straight man (if not as the blind guy - I remember watching the Roots commentaries the guy who cast Burton as Kunta Kinte chuckling because he said his soulful eyes were part of the reason he got the job, and then on Star Trek they hid his eyes the whole time).
I became a Star Trek fan because of 'The Measure of a Man'. Not merely due to Frakes' well-delivered speech... but from Picard's magnificent response. Patrick Stewart was simply one of the best things to happen to the franchise.
Yep. It was sort of understood that Stewart and Spiner were the actors to lean on - no matter how bad or ill-conceived the script and dialogue were, they delivered strong performances.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Kegek Kringle said:
I became a Star Trek fan because of 'The Measure of a Man'. Not merely due to Frakes' well-delivered speech... but from Picard's magnificent response. Patrick Stewart was simply one of the best things to happen to the franchise.
No argument on MEASURE, that and QWHO, and a few bits of THE DAUPHIN (wesley's date and Worf's explanation of how to bag babes) and the klingon stuff in MATTER OF HONOR were the only things I can recall liking second season.
I don't recall Riker's speech in that one, though. For me, Frakes was really at his best at the end of the Yar's sister episode, when he talks with Spiner about friendship and betrayal. I remember thinking that felt like Star Trek to me (probably corny, but wth.)
hellsgate
Commodore
"Star Trek: The Continuing Mission"
"Future Imperfect"
Note: A Conjectural "What If" tale that branches off from the TNG episodes "All Good Things" & "Parallels", at the point of 2380.
The Borg had been a collection of emotions. Reticent, ebullient, curious & unflinchingly cold about the facts before one of the multitude of fledgling sects finally decided to reach out and contact the Federation. Millions died, Billions more were assimilated. Earth, Vulcan, Andor, Tau Ceti, Romulus, Quonos, Tellar, & thousands more systems were clogged with detritus. Species 8472 had tried to assist Starfleet; but, were all but defeated.
Twenty-four cubes. Several subspace telescopes had picked-up a sun-dimming glot of thick-skinned tactical vessels en-route for Earth. The Enterprise-E was the only vessel to survive the initial engagements. Starfleet Headquarters enacted a Federation Wide disclaimer to incoming vessels and removed non-essential personnel as best they could.
Jem Hadar freedom fighters that had broken free of Ketracel White dependance, former Reman slaves, Breen, Syndicates like the Orions and Androssi stood their ground - instantly perishing. The Enterprise-E led the en-masse exodus to the Gamma Quadrant via the Bajoran Wormhole. The rest of the fleet laid cover-fire for the few successfully configured people-movers, ones capable of quantum slipstream, to get families out of harm's-reach and hopefully recruit some old friends to their aid.
The Dominion Founders were on-the-run. The Borg eventually adapted the biological and technological distinctiveness of The Great Link to their own six months after Earth fell. There was nowhere for the shape-shifters to go and nothing to disguise themselves as. The Tzenkethi wouldn't and couldn't help them, as they were among the last to join the conflict and the most enthusiastic about dying an honorable death against a worthy prey.
The Kam Ja'thae (Hur'q) were the first to take advantage of the vulnerabilities of their surroundings, realized there was little left from the Dominion War to pilage and destroyed the Klingon Homeworld before being annihilated by the Borg at Remus. There was a negligible twinge of regret at the loss of life as the Alliance stood by and watched, assuring themselves of one less adversary or mouth to feed in the long or short run.
The only chance to even the odds, survive, and send them a message were to select or conscript volunteers to accost the Collective on even ground. Advances were made in biomechanical utility grafts & other means of self-defense. Traitors and collaborators were often convicted in-absentia and shot on-sight. Hugh Of Borg (and others who'd successfully concealed themselves since their eviction from Unimatrix One in the Necrit Expanse and a variety of other settlements,) led the first few battles against his bretheren & for a while the Alliance held the line.
Jean Luc Picard & the Enterprise-E had been boxed-in. The Queen personally beamed aboard to re-capture and irreversibly assimilate Locutus before the final blow to the Terran System. A Pyramid-shaped vessel moved in, positioned itself and discharged an energy weapon into the planet's crust initiating a global cascade reaction. The planet fractured like an egg, large chunks of its mantle dimming with the loss of its magma to the frightening cold and deprivation of air.
Axehead-shaped pieces of Earth's now-rootless mass drifted apart, tumbling end over end with an unimpressive tuft of released steam. The cubes assumed a protective vanguard around the planet's now inert center & merged. Some of the remaining cubes that continued to enter the Terran System assumed parallel courses with the ruins of Human Civilization & began secretive operations. Days later, the monolithic structure would piggyback its siblings and resume course as a unified juggernaut out of the Sol System, inexplicably releasing the Enterprise from the lead vessel's Queen's Sphere chamber.
B4 would turn up missing after this encounter. Commander Geordi LaForge would assume command and spend the next few years hanging on by his fingernails to the center seat (and his sanity,) with an old friend by his side. Chief Miles O'Brien formerly of Deep Space Nine would lose all his friends to the Borg, to reclaim a berth on the Enterprise-E as its' Executive Officer. The Defiant would go down in flames with all hands, just four days after the assault on Earth.
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