Joss Jumps ship: Dollhouse is done?

[Bob The Skutter]

I don't see it. Yes he has female characters that get hurt, they are also strong characters,

This is pretty much it. If 2, then 1, and also:

yes he has female characters who get helped out by men,

To follow. Nobody's being terribly original by pointing this out, least of all me.

Now, the debate rages ever on about Whedon's feminist credentials, but labelling the other side of the debate as ridiculous and then proceeding to paint a Whedon series in such a dry manner that one would believe sex never entered the intent of the execution is a tad excessive even for a devoted Whedonite.

Who says sex never enters in to it? Sure sex enters in to it, sex is a reality of life, sex is something that sells(and it's not always his suggestion, Eliza is a producer on the show and Fox still have a say) and sex is something that can be explored from both sides of the feminism coin. But to label it is a fetish *shrugs* I think it's a silly angle to criticise the man and the shows.

Sometimes people see what they want to see, or read too deeply in to things.

I'd be reluctant to call myself a feminist, but even I am a little irked by it. I simply chalk it up to people having different fetish needs than me, mostly, which I'm fine with.

Irked by what? I like the show but it's not like I sit there drooling, fantasizing or masturbating over it.

 

[Kegg]

Who says sex never enters in to it? Sure sex enters in to it, sex is a reality of life,

By sex I don't mean that, I mean:

sex is something that sells

It'd be fallacious to assume this doesn't play a role in the series, and not entirely unreasonable to assume that Whedon's fetishes in particular play into this.

 

[RoJoHen]

i must say I'm kind of confused about the way the word "fetish" is being thrown around in here.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Who says sex never enters in to it? Sure sex enters in to it, sex is a reality of life,

By sex I don't mean that, I mean:

sex is something that sells

It'd be fallacious to assume this doesn't play a role in the series, and not entirely unreasonable to assume that Whedon's fetishes in particular play into this.

Of course it plays a role in the series, it's a series about men, and women, who can be programmed to be "willing" sex slaves, amongst other things, who can/will fulfil your every desire. Which is part of the moral ambiguity of the show. None of his other shows have been about this, and it's a fairly complex moral question that the show asks, so why is it so easy to chalk it up to being a personal fetish?

 

[Sci]

Who says sex never enters in to it? Sure sex enters in to it, sex is a reality of life,

By sex I don't mean that, I mean:

sex is something that sells

It'd be fallacious to assume this doesn't play a role in the series, and not entirely unreasonable to assume that Whedon's fetishes in particular play into this.

But it is mostly unreasonable. You and I don't know Whedon and don't know what his fetishes are. And Joss Whedon is not the only creative force behind this series -- in fact, from the stories told about how it was conceived, arguably Eliza Dushku deserves a co-creator credit.

People have a habit of acting as though everything here is coming straight from the subconscious mind of Whedon, as though television isn't a fundamentally collaborative form of art. This is a TV show, not a novel.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Who says sex never enters in to it? Sure sex enters in to it, sex is a reality of life,

By sex I don't mean that, I mean:

sex is something that sells

It'd be fallacious to assume this doesn't play a role in the series, and not entirely unreasonable to assume that Whedon's fetishes in particular play into this.

But it is mostly unreasonable. You and I don't know Whedon and don't know what his fetishes are. And Joss Whedon is not the only creative force behind this series -- in fact, from the stories told about how it was conceived, arguably Eliza Dushku deserves a co-creator credit.

People have a habit of acting as though everything here is coming straight from the subconscious mind of Whedon, as though television isn't a fundamentally collaborative form of art. This is a TV show, not a novel.

Thank you. This is largely my point.

 

[Kegg]

But it is mostly unreasonable. You and I don't know Whedon and don't know what his fetishes are.

Give a consistent strain of sexualised thought in a creator - any creator's - body of work, it is not unreasonable to assume that, hey, this is something they're into.

And Joss Whedon is not the only creative force behind this series -- in fact, from the stories told about how it was conceived, arguably Eliza Dushku deserves a co-creator credit.

Right, but she's not the creative force behind Firefly, Angel or Buffy, and I've never restricted or even particularly included my observation here to Dollhouse. Trends that are consistent in his fabric of work are probably more attributable to him, no?

 

[Sci]

But it is mostly unreasonable. You and I don't know Whedon and don't know what his fetishes are.

Give a consistent strain of sexualised thought in a creator - any creator's - body of work, it is not unreasonable to assume that, hey, this is something they're into.

And Joss Whedon is not the only creative force behind this series -- in fact, from the stories told about how it was conceived, arguably Eliza Dushku deserves a co-creator credit.

Right, but she's not the creative force behind Firefly, Angel or Buffy, and I've never restricted or even particularly included my observation here to Dollhouse. Trends that are consistent in his fabric of work are probably more attributable to him, no?

Considering how vaguely you describe these "trends," I'm pretty skeptical of that argument.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Doesn't Eliza have an Executive Producer credit on Dollhouse? Maybe she chose not to have co-creator status in exchange for this title?