JJ's scene by scene comments on trailer

[Franklin]

Spoiler text them for the moment - is it the same thing I'm thinking of?

Spoiler: spoilers

That both Kirk's mum and dad get killed on the Kelvin?

I'm guessing that's the "big slap in the face" Abrams was talking about before.

Definite timeline change, no doubt about that. Not the way others might have gone, but not a showstopper, either.

Spoiler: Three points of heresy?

Well, there are three heresy's: Kirk's dad dies; his mom dies; they are fighting Romulans. The question is whether JJ has chosen to alter the universe, or if the timeline is being/has been altered by Nero.
Rather than dying in the attack, I'd guess from the trailer that Kirk's mom died in childbirth while escaping.

One other thing:
Where is Kirk's brother in all this?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Funny how he talks about the Romulans being a fresher idea than the Klingons with the last movie being all about Romulans.

 

[JoeZhang]

Funny how he talks about the Romulans being a fresher idea than the Klingons with the last movie being all about Romulans.

What did we really see of them in that film? We see a load of them get smoked at the start and then a few turn up at the end - I don't think our experiences with the remen told us anything interesting or novel about Romulans.

 

[ThunderAeroI]

its really the same thing anyway.

In nemises it was a clone of picard by the romulans, now its rouge romulan. What is the difference. its a romulan rouge agent doing bad things. Thats not new or different.

 

[ALF]

Spoiler text them for the moment - is it the same thing I'm thinking of?

Spoiler: spoilers

That both Kirk's mum and dad get killed on the Kelvin?

I'm guessing that's the "big slap in the face" Abrams was talking about before.

Definite timeline change, no doubt about that. Not the way others might have gone, but not a showstopper, either.

Spoiler: Three points of heresy?

Well, there are three heresy's: Kirk's dad dies; his mom dies; they are fighting Romulans. The question is whether JJ has chosen to alter the universe, or if the timeline is being/has been altered by Nero.
Rather than dying in the attack, I'd guess from the trailer that Kirk's mom died in childbirth while escaping.

One other thing:
Where is Kirk's brother in all this?

Isn't he offed in the TOS episode with the Killer Pancakes From Space?
EDIT: I'm not being flippant, it's Operation Annihilate

 

[Timo]

So basically, Gladiator and Doctor Zhivago were also "the same thing"? They, too, had villains doing bad things.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JoeZhang]

its a romulan rouge agent doing bad things. Thats not new or different.

No he's clearly white.

 

[ThunderAeroI]

So basically, Gladiator and Doctor Zhivago were also "the same thing"? They, too, had villains doing bad things.

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, sure. If that makes you happy. If you cant understand how having two Romulan as bad guys is not different then your not going to be open to understanding anything.

 

[Timo]

Isn't he offed in the TOS episode with the Killer Pancakes From Space?
EDIT: I'm not being flippant, it's Operation Annihilate

Yup. But that would come long after the events of this movie. And for George Samuel Kirk Jr. to be present in his death scene in "Operation: Annihilate!", he'd have to survive the events of the movie first, somehow. He was Jim's big brother, after all.

Perhaps starfaring families don't always put all the eggs in the same basket, and Sam was elsewhere when Nero hit? Two of Kirk's three nephews avoided being hit in "Operation: Annihilate", too... (Or were they killed earlier? Or did Kirk have a sister?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ovation]

So basically, Gladiator and Doctor Zhivago were also "the same thing"? They, too, had villains doing bad things.

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, sure. If that makes you happy. If you cant understand how having two Romulan as bad guys is not different then your not going to be open to understanding anything.

But Shinzon was human and the Remans were NOT Romulans (as the film took great pain to point out). So if we want to be nitpicky (a favourite pastime around here, it seems), then Bana's Nero is NOT the same as the villain in Nemesis. (as I recall at the time, one of the major disappointments about the film--I know there were many, but this one was recurring--was the fact people EXPECTED actual Romulans to be the main villains but, in fact, they were rather marginal).

 

[Timo]

Yeah, sure. If that makes you happy. If you cant understand how having two Romulan as bad guys is not different then your not going to be open to understanding anything.

What "two Romulans"? That's again like saying that the villains in Gladiator and Doctor Zhivago were the same, because both were powerful people in a post-revolution government.

And if one of us is less than "open to understanding", it's obviously not me.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DeafPoet]

So basically, Gladiator and Doctor Zhivago were also "the same thing"? They, too, had villains doing bad things.

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, sure. If that makes you happy. If you cant understand how having two Romulan as bad guys is not different then your not going to be open to understanding anything.

Meh, it's Trek. There's only so many things you can do, villain-wise, in a movie. It's more important what they're doing. And you gotta admit, based on what we know at the moment, Nero makes Shinzon look like an unambitious chump. Different enough for me.

 

[Franklin]

I'm guessing that's the "big slap in the face" Abrams was talking about before.

Definite timeline change, no doubt about that. Not the way others might have gone, but not a showstopper, either.

Spoiler: Three points of heresy?

Well, there are three heresy's: Kirk's dad dies; his mom dies; they are fighting Romulans. The question is whether JJ has chosen to alter the universe, or if the timeline is being/has been altered by Nero.
Rather than dying in the attack, I'd guess from the trailer that Kirk's mom died in childbirth while escaping.

One other thing:
Where is Kirk's brother in all this?

Isn't he offed in the TOS episode with the Killer Pancakes From Space?
EDIT: I'm not being flippant, it's Operation Annihilate

You call them killer pancakes. To me, they looked like something the janitor used to soak up with sawdust at school.

Well, this movie occurs long before that episode.

I'm just saying that in the bar scene, Pike mentions that what Kirk's father did saved a lot of lives, specifically mentioning Kirk and his mother. That means either Sam was killed on the Kelvin (another change), there was no brother (another change), or Pike had a brain cramp and forgot to mention Sam was saved, too (very insensitive of him).

Over on IMDb (contents always to be taken with a grain of salt), Spencer Daniels is listed as the actor playing Kirk's brother. There's that and a spy photo released months ago of second-unit shooting in Bakersfield that showed a scene being shot with two little boys sitting in the Corvette. Everyone assumed it was Kirk and his brother.
Maybe Sam's parts became an inconvenience, and found their way onto the cutting room floor.

 

[Ovation]

Or maybe we're not being told EVERYTHING. Just a thought.

 

[ThunderAeroI]

So basically, Gladiator and Doctor Zhivago were also "the same thing"? They, too, had villains doing bad things.

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, sure. If that makes you happy. If you cant understand how having two Romulan as bad guys is not different then your not going to be open to understanding anything.

But Shinzon was human and the Remans were NOT Romulans (as the film took great pain to point out). So if we want to be nitpicky (a favourite pastime around here, it seems), then Bana's Nero is NOT the same as the villain in Nemesis. (as I recall at the time, one of the major disappointments about the film--I know there were many, but this one was recurring--was the fact people EXPECTED actual Romulans to be the main villains but, in fact, they were rather marginal).

Shinzon was a romulan plot for controlling Star Fleet, he was not a reman plot for anything. He controled the Reman fleet, but he still was a Romulan plot device.

Nero is a romulan out to destroy Star Fleet by destorying Vulcan and preventing reuninification most likely. That makes him the same plot device more or less as Shinzon. A romulan out to destroy Star Fleet.

Now it is Star Trek to be sure so the 'plots' are limited; however, JJ is selling this as new, which it isn't. In fact its the same plot points as the last Star Trek Movie.


There will be differences to be sure, but when the major plot is a romulan (or their device)

 

[ST-One]

Or maybe we're not being told EVERYTHING. Just a thought.

This CANNOT be.
The trailer should have told us everything. EVERYTHING I say!

 

[ThunderAeroI]

So basically, Gladiator and Doctor Zhivago were also "the same thing"? They, too, had villains doing bad things.

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, sure. If that makes you happy. If you cant understand how having two Romulan as bad guys is not different then your not going to be open to understanding anything.

Meh, it's Trek. There's only so many things you can do, villain-wise, in a movie. It's more important what they're doing. And you gotta admit, based on what we know at the moment, Nero makes Shinzon look like an unambitious chump. Different enough for me.

Yeah 47 klingon ships destoryed by one ship and we are expecting the enterprise to defeat it? Seriously, why do the enemy ships have to be so ungodly superpowered that they deaft everything but the enterpeise which itself is a ship thats been destoryed on occation.

 

[DeafPoet]

... because it would make for a crappy story if the Enterprise got Space-Tentacled ten minutes into it?

 

[Ovation]

Yeah, sure. If that makes you happy. If you cant understand how having two Romulan as bad guys is not different then your not going to be open to understanding anything.

Meh, it's Trek. There's only so many things you can do, villain-wise, in a movie. It's more important what they're doing. And you gotta admit, based on what we know at the moment, Nero makes Shinzon look like an unambitious chump. Different enough for me.

Yeah 47 klingon ships destoryed by one ship and we are expecting the enterprise to defeat it? Seriously, why do the enemy ships have to be so ungodly superpowered that they deaft everything but the enterpeise which itself is a ship thats been destoryed on occation.

Maybe those crafty Starfleet people will try something other than just "brute force"? And I still don't see anything more than the most superficial resemblance between the previous movie and this one in terms of villains. Perhaps after I, oh I don't know, have SEEN THE NEW MOVIE, then I'll be able to make an informed judgement. Seem reasonable?