Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Servo, Jul 28, 2010.
No, I really didn't. Can you elaborate on what the "sugar and spice" thing is?
What are little boys made of?
What are little boys made of?
Frogs and snails
And puppy-dogs' tails,
That's what little boys are made of.
What are little girls made of?
What are little girls made of?
Sugar and spice
And all that's nice,
That's what little girls are made of.
No no, I get that. I know the rhyme. I'm just wondering how you're extrapolating that. I'm not doing this to pick a fight with you, actually. I mean, I do find you a bit one-note but I think you have some valid points and if you're going to keep bringing up gender issues, I want to know exactly what it is you're complaining about.
^ In fairness to the point I assume he's trying to make, a large proportion of female-targeted entertainment is heavily reliant on mocking men, and the things that men do. There is a certain amount of double standards involved too. I imagine that, if there was a daytime TV show where a bunch of guys sat around clucking about how stupid their spouses (or women in general) are, then it would be derided as being sexist. However, when women ridiclue the stupidity of "men", it's acceptable.
Not saying I really give a shit, but you can't deny that it's how things work.
If I understand his point of view correctly the way he sees it there is an active campaign against men and their likes, interests and hobbies, as well as their rights. From government moves to make men responsible for children fathered from their sperm when it has been donated to portraying men as bumbling idiots and women as the brains in advertising, to flooding TV schedules with female targeted shows.
As you say he has some interesting points, and I often agree with him, but other than the fact I agree with what he's saying it''d be hard to say who was more out of whack in this thread, him or Rii...
Sorry Hermiod, I don't mean to be insulting, it's just you do sometimes you sound like a conspiracy theorist.
Did you really expect me not to respond to a thread where someone is criticising gaming for being about 'male power fantasies' and needing to 'grow up' as a result ? Most posters on this board are a bit one-note if you look at their posting histories.
I'm not extrapolating a nursery rhyme, it's just a very handy way of expressing an idea.
In this case, I'm 'complaining' (completely the wrong word, by the way) about the oft-mentioned view that in order to grow the video gaming industry needs to move away from it's current supposed adult male-dominated status to being something more general interest.
Rii's assertion was that games like Halo and Call of Duty, being games that are enjoyed by a predominantly male audience, are an example of something 'wrong' with the games industry and a sign of its immaturity. Since such games appeal to people like me with my 'male power fantasies' they exclude women and as a result they should change to suit his view of the world.
My argument is simply that there's nothing wrong with a man enjoying such games and indulging these 'fantasies'. In fact, most women I've come across who've actually taken the time to try it for themselves enjoy it too. If there's one thing us guys can do better, however, it's treating those women a bit better when we play with them online.
Bob, Servo - you're right, I do talk about this stuff too much. In this case, as I said to Kestra, I wasn't going to leave Rii's bullshit alone. I think guys do need to stand up for themselves a bit better, then whackjobs like me wouldn't have to do it for them.
Okay some of that makes sense regarding entertainment, though I'm uncertain about the active campaign against men and their likes. Actually even in this thread, I don't understand why it's assumed that a lot of the gaming aspects that appeal to men wouldn't appeal to women as well. I know a lot of women play other games. But is that because that's what they like, or what they're supposed to like?
Things like violence and pornography seem to get labelled as men's interests, when I honestly think many women enjoy the same types of interests.
Edit: I just saw your post, Hermiod. I'm not going to reply to all of it since that obviously won't go well. I didn't see where posters were calling it a "male power fantasy" so I do apologize for that. Like you said, I think a lot of women enjoy the same things or would if given the opportunity and some of the stigma attached was removed.
And I do think it's good to bring up things like this. I don't like the way that you do it, but your posts over the years have changed the way I view certain things. It's usually something small, like stupid "funny" emails that women forward around to each other, but it's also made me more aware of issues such as parental rights.
^Well, at least I've had some sort of a positive impact. Thanks, Kestra.
Yeah, the reason it turned in to this was because of Rii making it about male power fantasies and saying the industry needs to grow up, as if having games of interest to men automatically makes it wrong and juvenile.
The way I see it things that are supposedly male interests, action films, sci-fi, sports and video games all have plenty of female fames too, and there are plenty of female interests that have male fans, so making it a black and white, us vs them issue is stupid.
I don't see it as a campaign against men, more as a business strategy to get the lowest common denominator of whatever audience they can get. For women that's making men stupid and women great, for men that's explosions and boobs. While people in the middle ground sit back and take it because that's all they can get in the main stream, either that or have next to nothing because there's only small alternatives.
You'd have even more of one if I wasn't scared of you getting all angry and hardcore about things all the time! I'm still trying to figure out how to have discussions with you. Just sayin' ...
You're right in that regard. You only need to look at the photos on the front covers of magazines like Heat to see how the media reaches for the lowest common denominator with women too. It's always pictures of some unfortunate female celebrity with arrows pointing at their armpit stains or their cellulite.
When it comes to this stuff, I learned to fight fire with fire from certain female ex-posters who gave as good as they got.
Calling it an "active campaign" is probably a bit OTT, but it's definitely a large part of mainstream female culture, and the point remains that if the roles were reversed, the female community would be up in arms about it.
Double standards. Gotta love 'em.
Yep gotta love how patronising they are to women though. Want to interest women in gaming? Ooh look a pink DS and a game with a cutesy wootsy puppy in it. Oh and design your own wardrobe!
Thankfully the main gaming woman in my life at least discovered Lego Star Wars on her DS before any of that.
Well I don't fight with fire. Except on special occasions.
And you can fight monsters while wearing bunny ears!!!
The bolded part of this post earns you an infraction for flaming.
Comments to PM
are you also going to warn Rii for trolling the thread and baiting Hermiod?
^He didn't bait me in the slightest.
well, he seemed to be trying to...
Separate names with a comma.