Jem'Hadar Kamikaze Attacks

[Dingo]

Anyone else notice how the Jem'Hadar tended to fly suicide rammings against Klingon ships during the Dominion War arc? I mean I know they did so in the one episode where USS Odyssey got destroyed, but I noticed their suicide runs targeted Klingons the most. Klingon shields have got to be most susceptible to ramming or something if the Jem'Hadar suicide attacks target them...

 

[Destructor]

Perhaps they saw Klingon ships as more of an immediate threat, and so did suicide runs on them as soon as possible in order to not have to deal with them anymore and focus on the wussy Federation ships, instead.

 

[nx1701g]

Perhaps they saw Klingon ships as more of an immediate threat, and so did suicide runs on them as soon as possible in order to not have to deal with them anymore and focus on the wussy Federation ships, instead.

That's how I took it too. The Dominion knew the Klingons would keep fighting until the very last man, but the Federation may retreat.

 

[Jono]

I can only remember the Jem'Hadar doing it once and it been shown twice on the show. During Chin'toka the Jem'Hadar were vastly outnumbered and they were only engaged by the Klingons, so in that case its bad luck for the Klingons. In WYLB they used stock footage from TotP of the ramming, which again only shows Jem'Hadar against Klingons. We never see them specifically picking out Klingon ships within a mixed group for ramming.

I don't doubt all sides did ramming, though the Federation, Cardassians and Romulans are more likely to do it as a last result with a dying vessel rather than with perfectly good ship.

 

[Dingo]

I know that, but I also figured maybe Klingon shields are especially susceptible to kinetic attacks especially, considering Romulan and Federation ships tend to fire phasers as opposed to torpedoes, missiles, or other projectiles.

 

[Timo]

Before DS9, the shields of all the cultures seemed to do pretty well against kinetic attacks and impacts. We might speculate that the modification that allowed the shields to repel Dominion phased polaron beams came at a price: the modified shields were more susceptible to ramming attacks...

Remember that shields have always been shown in two different ways: skin-hugging, and projected ovoids. Sometimes the very same ship may demonstrate both kinds, for example in VOY. Yet in DS9, only the skintight shields are shown, at least towards the end of the show. Perhaps only those could be modified to be polaron-proof, but the lack of space between the shield and the hull creates a vulnerability against ramming attack?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Also, the footage of the Jemmies ramming the Klingies was repeated for the finale, mostly to make up time. It's up to you if you wish to take this as the Klingons flying the exact same formation and being susceptible to the exact same attack from the exact number of Jem'Haddar bugs, or not.

Mark

 

[Timo]

Well, our good Trek warriors do rely on "attack pattern Omega" a lot. In theory, it could be that Klingons attack in identical, optimal formations whenever they have the right starships available for the maneuver. And once the enemy learns of this, he, too, devises an optimum response and follows that to the hilt...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nightdiamond]

Klingons interestingly, also have been known to engage in suicide attacks, like Kor did, although it wasn't a direct suicide attack.

 

[Plecostomus]

The skin-field as opposed to the bubble... Yeah that makes sense. You have several hundred meters between the exploding ship at the edge of the shield envelope where as the skin field it impacts directly against the hull.

Didn't they (the Odd'ity) take her shields off line prior to the ramming? I forget.

 

[Timo]

Yes, they did. Bad move, but somewhat understandable: Keogh would have had reason to think that going belly-up would end the Dominion attack. After all, he had been the aggressor, and he was not only dropping his (seemingly useless) shields, he was also withdrawing.

In prior engagements, Galaxy class ships had caused enemy ships (albeit small ones) to just bump off their shields; see "The Hunted". Ramming had not been suggested as a viable maneuver before "Jem'Hadar", except once, against the Borg in "BoBW". And that had been a warp speed ramming against a target that did not have conventional shields.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jono]

Before DS9, the shields of all the cultures seemed to do pretty well against kinetic attacks and impacts. We might speculate that the modification that allowed the shields to repel Dominion phased polaron beams came at a price: the modified shields were more susceptible to ramming attacks...

Remember that shields have always been shown in two different ways: skin-hugging, and projected ovoids. Sometimes the very same ship may demonstrate both kinds, for example in VOY. Yet in DS9, only the skintight shields are shown, at least towards the end of the show. Perhaps only those could be modified to be polaron-proof, but the lack of space between the shield and the hull creates a vulnerability against ramming attack?

Timo Saloniemi

Probably the last time the oval shields were shown in DS9 was in "Favor the Bold" on the Defiant and they had no problem with dealing with the Jem'Hadar's weapons.

The hull tight shields of the E-E shrugged off a pretty sizeable impact from a destroyed warbird in "Nemesis" on its saucer and then off its nacelle and their shields weren't at 100%.

Though maybe you are onto something with the oval shields vs hull tight as in "Call to Arms" the central ring of the station is protected by hull tight shields at the start of the battle but when the damaged Hideki is on a crash course with it the ship hits an oval shield around the entire central core. Then in the next attack its back to hull-tight shields

Just watching TotP again and its unclear but it does look like a OWP is destroyed when it is accidentally rammed by a damaged BoP. Given that only part of its wing connects it makes a pretty big explosion.

 

[MvRojo]

Anyone else notice how the Jem'Hadar tended to fly suicide rammings against Klingon ships during the Dominion War arc? I mean I know they did so in the one episode where USS Odyssey got destroyed, but I noticed their suicide runs targeted Klingons the most. Klingon shields have got to be most susceptible to ramming or something if the Jem'Hadar suicide attacks target them...

Did they kamikaze Klingon ships more than just the one time (ignoring the re-used effects shot)?

 

[Destructor]

Well, our good Trek warriors do rely on "attack pattern Omega" a lot. In theory, it could be that Klingons attack in identical, optimal formations whenever they have the right starships available for the maneuver. And once the enemy learns of this, he, too, devises an optimum response and follows that to the hilt...

That's so funny, because it could well be true!

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Mmmaybe. Even if the explosions and wreckage fly off in the exact same patterns.

Mark