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Jadzia sans Dax

Arix

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
After reading a thread about time travel episodes, I started thinking about how interesting it would have been if they had made either a time travel or an alternate universe episode where Jadzia wasn't joined to Dax.

It would have been interesting to see what she was like pre-joining, not to mention allowing Terry Farrell to have a little fun playing an alternate version of her character.

Does anyone else think it would have been awesome if an episode had featured unjoined Jadzia and explored what her personality was like?
 
In one episode it got said that unjoined Jadzia was very silent, timed and studious.
If the episode would have not only featured on that, but had some other event and that story is part from it I could well imagine it. Maybe as some tempral change, so that Jadzia Dax end up in the past while in the here and now suddenly is unjoined Jadzia in a situation where one certainly would need a brave and experienced officer and no shy and unsure woman.

TerokNor
 
Remember, though--"introverted" and "quiet" do NOT necessarily translate to insecure. Someone can be quiet but perfectly self-confident.
 
I would really have liked to see something based around that. It would have to have a little more plot depth than just having Jadzia without Dax around, quite possibly a situation like the one TerokNor described above.

In fact, an episode based on this concept would have been better than half the Jadzia episodes we got.

The unjoined Jadzia we saw briefly in Invasive Procedures seemed insecure, but obviously that was because of circumstances. It's hard to know what she was really like without seeing her in a normal situation.
 
Jadzia indeed seemed to possess a quiet self-confidence in early episodes (her interactions with Bashir certainly stressed that aspect of her personality, in contrast to his bumblings). Even in episodes like "Dax", where she was put through the wringer and had to confront the ghosts of past hosts (not yet in the literal "Facets" way :p), she seemed quite self-possessed albeit in a reserved fashion. Then in season two she seemed to become quite insecure in many ways. I blame Verad, personally. I like to think season one Jadzia Dax was a successful joining of a quiet, studious woman who occasionally pushed herself too hard with a sly old symbiont which allowed her a wry perspective and a ease of being that complemented her intelligence to provide a "wisdom". Then Verad messed up the equilibrium and season two Jadzia struggled a bit to find it again- and repeated intrusions by past host matters (e.g. the Blood Oath) saw her embracing more of her older hosts and less the "Jadzia" personality. Then in early season three Joran makes himself known, and she learns to embrace those repressed memories...then in late season three she confronts the repressed Curzon-loved-Jadzia memories and learns to embrace Curzon....and eventually Jadzia Dax settles into an equilibrium again, but this one different from her earlier balance, more excitable, more "flirty", more dangerous, more Curzon-with-a-bit-of-Joran. She becomes Klingon Party Girl! ;) And thus she remains until death.

That's my theory, because while I liked Jadzia Dax in all her appearances, she did shift a bit in character. I think, though, that it does all make sense.
 
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I actually think we never got a clear enough idea of what Jadzia was like either joined or unjoined before she turned into female Curzon and then Mrs. Worf.

So, yes, I think some episodes along these lines would have been a good idea: the writers always had a stronger vision, it seems, of who Curzon was than who Jadzia was.
 
EXACTLY--she turned into a female Curzon. And I think that THIS is actually at the root of Ezri's fear of losing herself, not just the suddenness of the joining...Jadzia lost herself to the memories of Curzon and Ezri is fighting it.
 
EXACTLY--she turned into a female Curzon. And I think that THIS is actually at the root of Ezri's fear of losing herself, not just the suddenness of the joining...Jadzia lost herself to the memories of Curzon and Ezri is fighting it.

An interesting interpretation. I do feel that Jadzia's portrayal on DS9 is rather ironic insofar as part of the preparation for being joined would presumably involve learning how to avoid "losing one's self" to the personality of the prior host. However, that is precisely what happened to Jadzia.

The in-universe explanation for Ezri's troubles is that she had not received the prior training normally required for joining. From an out-of-universe perspective, though, I tend to see this as the writers trying to make sure that Ezri's personality was distinct from those of her previous hosts. Your in-universe explanation is a bit of a fusion of the two, and I think it holds up quite well.

Later of course there is the problem of Ezri falling for Bashir, apparently based largely on Jadzia's unexplored feelings. Overall it seems, ironically enough, that the writers had a really hard time not defining Trill characters by the experiences of their prior host, in spite of the fact that this is precisely what Trill society sets out to avoid when Trills are joined.
 
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I don't think there is any hope whatsoever for the Jadzia character to have been interesting with Farrell in the role.

Jadzia without Dax would have had zero personality in the exact same way as Jadzia with Dax does.

Really, they'd need to cast a much better actress in the Jadzia role for that to change.
 
I don't think there is any hope whatsoever for the Jadzia character to have been interesting with Farrell in the role.

Really, they'd need to cast a much better actress in the Jadzia role for that to change.

I'v got to disagree, i think Terry Farrell did a wonderful job and i think her acting got a lot better as the season progressed.
I think it would have being a wonderful idea to have an episode based on jadzia and not dax. It could of focused on Jadizas family ect. which would lead to a better understanding of jadzia wanting to be joined, i know this was done in the episode were she mentors the young trill, but still i think it would be a great idea.
 
I'm thinkin' Jadzia without Dax would probably be like the good half of Kirk in 'the Enemy Within'.
 
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Jadzia indeed seemed to possess a quiet self-confidence in early episodes (her interactions with Bashir certainly stressed that aspect of her personality, in contrast to his bumblings). Even in episodes like "Dax", where she was put through the wringer and had to confront the ghosts of past hosts (not yet in the literal "Facets" way :p), she seemed quite self-possessed albeit in a reserved fashion. Then in season two she seemed to become quite insecure in many ways. I blame Verad, personally. I like to think season one Jadzia Dax was a successful joining of a quiet, studious woman who occasionally pushed herself too hard with a sly old symbiont which allowed her a wry perspective and a ease of being that complemented her intelligence to provide a "wisdom". Then Verad messed up the equilibrium and season two Jadzia struggled a bit to find it again- and repeated intrusions by past host matters (e.g. the Blood Oath) saw her embracing more of her older hosts and less the "Jadzia" personality. Then in early season three Joran makes himself known, and she learns to embrace those repressed memories...then in late season three she confronts the repressed Curzon-loved-Jadzia memories and learns to embrace Curzon....and eventually Jadzia Dax settles into an equilibrium again, but this one different from her earlier balance, more excitable, more "flirty", more dangerous, more Curzon-with-a-bit-of-Joran. She becomes Klingon Party Girl! ;) And thus she remains until death.

That's my theory, because while I liked Jadzia Dax in all her appearances, she did shift a bit in character. I think, though, that it does all make sense.

I totally agree with you Nasat! To me Jadzia's shifts in personality made perfect sense, I think her personality during Season 1 was probably the closest to what she was like pre-joining, and as each year progressed (and the aforementioned events occured) she learned to integrate those parts into herself, and changed as a result.

EXACTLY--she turned into a female Curzon. And I think that THIS is actually at the root of Ezri's fear of losing herself, not just the suddenness of the joining...Jadzia lost herself to the memories of Curzon and Ezri is fighting it.

I dunno if I completely agree with this interpretation Nerys, though I think we've probably discussed this in the past... But I've never thought of Jadzia as a female Curzon - I think the main reason we tend to jump to that conclusion is because he is the host we learn the most about.

I will agree that his memories made a strong impression on Dax, though perhaps that has more to do with the fact that he was a host to Dax for many decades (was he joined the longest?) and also because he was the most recent host.

But I don't really think that Jadzia completely lost herself to the memories of Curzon -Nasat's explanation makes the most sense to me.

As for Ezri, we only saw her for one season, where she was very much struggling to figure out who she now was. If all we saw of Jadzia was season one, then our interpretation of her would be completely different. I personally believe that, had the show continued, Ezri would also have gradually changed as she embraced all the past hosts and learned who Ezri Dax (as opposed to Ezri Tigan) was.

But I've managed to completely tangent in my own thread, oh the irony! :lol:

I would really have liked to see something based around that. It would have to have a little more plot depth than just having Jadzia without Dax around, quite possibly a situation like the one TerokNor described above.

In fact, an episode based on this concept would have been better than half the Jadzia episodes we got.

The unjoined Jadzia we saw briefly in Invasive Procedures seemed insecure, but obviously that was because of circumstances. It's hard to know what she was really like without seeing her in a normal situation.

Now don't get me wrong, I loved Jadzia episodes because I think Dax is the most fascinating Star Trek character. But I think, in addition to the episodes we got, we should have learned what Jadzia was like pre-Dax.

And as you said, its hard to know whether what we saw of her in season 1, and in Invasive Procedures, was what pre-joined Jadzia was like in a normal situation.

Some possible scenarios for a Jadzia-centric episode include -

A parallel universe (perhaps similar to the TNG episode "Parallels") where Jadzia switches with an alternate version of herself, who would then be on DS9 with our regular crew. She may or may not still be a Starfleet science officer, perhaps she's a visiting Trill scientist instead.

A 'time travel' episode (maybe similar to "Wrongs Darker than Death or Night") where Jadzia or one of the main crew goes back in time to witness an event which shaped pre-joined Jadzia's life.

Or as suggested by Kathryn-janeway, they could have visited Jadzia's family (similar to "Prodigal Daughter") - she mentions having a sister who isn't joined, maybe something could have happened with her.

I think it was a definitely a mistake on the writer's part to focus solely on Dax, it seems every episode that featured Jadzia focused on Dax, and because of that we learned next to nothing about Jadzia's family, backstory or interests prior to joining.
 
EXACTLY--she turned into a female Curzon. And I think that THIS is actually at the root of Ezri's fear of losing herself, not just the suddenness of the joining...Jadzia lost herself to the memories of Curzon and Ezri is fighting it.

I dunno if I completely agree with this interpretation Nerys, though I think we've probably discussed this in the past... But I've never thought of Jadzia as a female Curzon - I think the main reason we tend to jump to that conclusion is because he is the host we learn the most about.

I will agree that his memories made a strong impression on Dax, though perhaps that has more to do with the fact that he was a host to Dax for many decades (was he joined the longest?) and also because he was the most recent host.

But I don't really think that Jadzia completely lost herself to the memories of Curzon -Nasat's explanation makes the most sense to me.
From what we've learned about Curzon, if Jadzia was the "female Curzon", she'd have been way more flamboyant and promiscuous than she was, and would have pretty much always been the center of attention. So, no, I don't think she was a female Curzon - I think she had incorporated Curzon's personality into hers, but it was a more temperate and milder version of his personality traits. She always had a certain calm, relaxed kind of strength to her, but since season 2 she seemed to open herself more to enjoying life and pursuing all sorts of dynamic hobbies that Curzon was into - including an affinity for Klingons.

It will sound bizarre, but Jadzia Dax (as a personality) seemed a bit like what you'd get if Jadzia and Curzon had a child. :cardie:
 
From what we've learned about Curzon, if Jadzia was the "female Curzon", she'd have been way more flamboyant and promiscuous than she was, and would have pretty much always been the center of attention. So, no, I don't think she was a female Curzon - I think she had incorporated Curzon's personality into hers, but it was a more temperate and milder version of his personality traits. She always had a certain calm, relaxed kind of strength to her, but since season 2 she seemed to open herself more to enjoying life and pursuing all sorts of dynamic hobbies that Curzon was into - including an affinity for Klingons.

It will sound bizarre, but Jadzia Dax (as a personality) seemed a bit like what you'd get if Jadzia and Curzon had a child. :cardie:

What a fantastic explanation DevilEyes, I think you hit the nail on the head!
 
Without Dax, Jadzia probably would have been dreaming about Sisko but would have been too shy to actually approach him. On the other hand, she might have been totally overwhelmed by Bashir going after her...
 
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