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Jack the Ripper Revealed! (SPOILERS)

Now we know who Redjac was possessing at the time!

Uh, no, we don't, because the "discovery" was published in the most disreputable tabloid in England (so I gather) rather than a peer-reviewed scientific journal, and because one of the authors of the article happens to have a book about Jack the Ripper coming out on Tuesday. This is just a publicity stunt for the latest of the many theories about who the Ripper was.
 
Unless the Finnish DNA expert is lying, the Polish guy's dna was on the shawl. MAYBe from other contact, but the murders cease when he is institutionalized, and he was a suspect then before the racier high-level names became fashionable. Seems pretty good to me.
 
Unless the Finnish DNA expert is lying, the Polish guy's dna was on the shawl. MAYBe from other contact, but the murders cease when he is institutionalized, and he was a suspect then before the racier high-level names became fashionable. Seems pretty good to me.


Any information can "seem pretty good" if it's presented in the right way. That doesn't make it true. And plenty of "experts" are just people trying to make a buck. You can find an expert to testify to anything. That's why good science is based on peer review, on putting an idea out there for critical analysis. It's only if an idea survives the attempt to disprove it that it should be trusted. Instead, these folks decided to publish it in a for-profit book and publicize it in a disreputable tabloid. That doesn't seem remotely good to me. They're just the latest bunch of people trying to cash in on an old tragedy. They're not the first to claim to have proven who the Ripper was, and they won't be the last. (The dead giveaway is the claim in the article that they've proven the Ripper's identity with 100 percent certainty. No reputable scientist would ever make such a claim; doubt is the foundation of all scientific inquiry. Anyone who ever tells you that they can prove something with 100 percent certainty is lying to you. I'm... 99 percent certain of that. ;) )

Heck, less than a year ago, there was a spate of headlines claiming the mystery had been "solved" by a forensic analysis concluding that Jack the Ripper never existed, but was basically the invention of a disreputable journalist (sounds familiar):

http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird...stery-solved-by-top-detective-after-125-years

That one actually sounds pretty plausible to me. But there have been countless different "proofs" over the decades for countless different theories. Within the span of a single year, we've had one application of modern forensic techniques concluding that the Ripper never existed, and another application of cutting-edge DNA analysis proving with "100 percent certainty" that a particular person was the Ripper. This is why peer review is essential. We can't know a result is valid unless it's repeatable -- unless multiple investigations arrive independently at the same conclusion. If there's no consensus, the mystery remains.
 
I'm still trying to figure out the mystery of why this thread needed to be spoiler-tagged... ;)
 
I'm not sure why this should be treated as scientifically interesting in the first place... (And never mind Trek topicality!)

However, this is drastically different from most earlier accusations in one key respect. All previous theorizing has relied on circumstantial evidence: who might have been where and known whom, possessed what and been possessed by what... This case instead relies on physical evidence that comes in one (suspiciously!) neat and indivisible package.

There are three possibilities here, really:

1) Jack the Ripper has been identified.
2) Either the victim or the culprit is not genetically represented in the sample after all, and material from random other players creates the illusion that this is a valid piece of physical evidence relating to the case.
3) The whole thing is an elaborate fraud from start to finish, involving careful forgery of physical evidence.

The fourth possibility, that the piece of evidence is genuine but the DNA matching is overtly optimistic in pointing to two known players simultaneously, is not really a concern here: the house doing the analysis is a reputable one, and the levels of confidence quoted are too convincing for false positives. For both the victim and the suspect to be falsely identified in the sample, we absolutely have to plead conspiracy rather than incompetence. Peer review will not alter these arguments: only a police investigation into a fraud would.

Now, considering the nature of the case, #3 sounds a very likely scenario overall. But forging this sort of evidence is actually pretty difficult, and had this been done ten years ago, I'd argue the means would not be there. As for #2, it would be rather unlikely that a random woman's bloodied scarf would exist with the suspect's blood and semen DNA on it - what could the circumstances be, combining the creation of such an object and its ending up in the hands of the current posse?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Any information can "seem pretty good" if it's presented in the right way. That doesn't make it true.

Thanks. I had missed that while getting my several degrees. :rolleyes:

I was just SAYIN', man, it seems pretty good at face value. Wow. Pedantic, ever?
 
And I still don't see how something published in a sleazy tabloid to promote a book can possibly seem pretty good at face value. They might as well be claiming that the Loch Ness Monster was the murderer.
 
And I still don't see how something published in a sleazy tabloid to promote a book can possibly seem pretty good at face value.

Now that is a purely elitist claim, and without merit.

The case of Jack the Ripper is devoid of actual scientific interest; even criminology just cringes when it's brought up. All the interest in the case is public (in the sense of "pubgoers"), and thus the correct forum for presenting results should be public as well.

A finding being sensational and it being incorrect are fundamentally separate things, and seeing a fundamental connection is a childish fallacy. With that out of the way, though, naturally sensationalism and dodgy results spend time in the same shady corners. But this cannot be a sound argument in denouncing the findings, especially considering the relevance.

"It's not peer-reviewed"? It was presented yesterday. Where's the hurry?

As for the critique above, supposedly the source of the suspect's DNA is blood and semen traces (or at least that's how the results were quoted around here). It's not from "handling" the shawl, it's from using it in a manner relating to the alleged crime.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Anyone who thinks this article/findings proves the identity of Jack the Ripper must not think the word "gullible" is in any dictionary.
 
Ooooh, is this the one where they make a clone of him from the dna and then he tries to refound the third riech?

No wait, wrong one.


Actually, I like the theory that the ripper was a sailor that was jailed in New York for a similar set of crimes. He was in England for the time of those murders and back tracking there were other murders at other ports where he was. Damned if I can remember where I read this.

I found a link: http://www.thelocal.de/20110407/34257

But that's not where I first saw this theory, but it's still my second favorite, tied with a guy named Sabastian and after my favorite, that the Ripper is a gaseous cloud creature that lives of of fear and sounds a lot like Piglet.
 
Nahh, everybody knows the Ripper was really David Warner, and H.G. Wells chased him through time to 1979 San Francisco.

But seriously, I do think the Trevor Marriott hypothesis I linked to above, that the "Ripper" was a media creation attached to several killings out of many, does seem pretty likely to me. Sadly, violent murders of young women have not exactly been a rare thing over the ages. The real "answer" is that there are many equally vile men who are guilty of such crimes, in the past and in the present. The only thing that makes the so-called Jack the Ripper stand out is the media hype. It's like the Bermuda Triangle -- statistically, ships and planes disappear no more often there than they do over any comparable expanse of ocean, but that's the region that gets the publicity, thanks to so-called journalists who fabricated a legend around it in order to sell books.
 
This thread turned out to be far more informative than I expected! This was the first time that I'd ever seen so much media attention regarding proof about Jack the Ripper and I hadn't seen anything from the Daily Mail or even anything about a book coming out. Really interesting to hear another side to the story.

Or it could have been David Warner. Loved him in that movie!
 
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