I've never liked Kirk as a character - is this somehow blasphemy?

[Joel_Kirk]

I'm not much of a Kirk fan today as I used to be, even though my last name comes from that character...

However, I am still a big TOS fan, but I tend to like stories that have other characters as leads in that particular universe.

Fuck the so-called 'big three' concept...(Although, I do like some Spock stories as well as some McCoy stories).

 

[scout]

As a child watching TOS, I disliked Kirk intensely. He seemed to my childish little mind, to be just leeching Spock's good ideas and claiming the credit for something he had only just agreed to do albeit DRAMATICALLY, while McCoy stood by insulting poor Spock.

My opinion has mellowed somewhat as there is something to be said for the way Shatner inhabited the role and gave Kirk a sense of potency.

 

[Robert DeSoto]

I think of all the captains, Kirk is the one i could not picture as a real life person. picard, yes. There are people who like archaeology, Shakespeare, philosophy, or who are skilled at resolving conflicts.

Sisko, again yes. There are people in the real world who are bold in their persona, like to cook, are single fathers, or who are militarily skilled.

Janeway, yet again, yes. Plenty of people have an interest in science, or like coffee a lot.

But Kirk was not somebody one could relate to. Having quirks such as Earl Grey Tea, Raktajino, or black coffee, is something that most people in the real world have. All we ever saw of Kirk was him chasing women or being charismatic.

how could u? yes its blasphemy! may you burn in hell!!!

seriously tho, you can like or dislike whoever or whatever u want. star trek is not a religion.

But I like Kirk. And I don't see why its hard to relate to him. I don't read much Shakespeare, study archeology, drink black coffee or Earl Gray Tea. But I love women. And I find they like guys who are charismatic.

The thing about Kirk is that although he was given faults, they were all stereotypically heroic faults. Sometimes he bucked authority. Hero. Sometimes he chased women. Hero. Sometimes he chased women only as a means to protect his ship and his crew. Hero.

It's not that no real humans don't do those things, because of course they do. But when all your faults are heroic faults, that's not being human, really. That's being a hero.

Unless he had undergone some alien-induced thingy, did he ever show a moment's weakness or vulnerability? And yet all humans are vulnerable at times, even the genuinely heroic ones. Did he ever just flat-out mess up - not like a hero but like a human? And yet all real people mess up, and most interesting fictional people do, too, and they really should admit it at least now and then.

hmm there was the time when the Organians stopped the Enterprise as it led a Federation Fleet to engage a Klingon invasion Fleet. Kirk, like most Starfleet officers go on about how peaceful the Federation is and how different they are from the Klingons. But when it came time for war, Kirk wanted to fight just as badly as Kor. I kinda liked how the Organians showed that the Federation isn't always morally superior, that maybe it is flawed like its enemies.

Another one of my favourite scenes is in Balance of Terror. Kirk heroically leads his men into battle, confident and full of resolve. But then, in his quarters he confesses to McCoy, he's not confident at all. He's actually pretty scared. He sees the men looking at him to make the next move. And what if he makes wrong decision? Beneath that calm "heroic" exterior is a very nervous guy.

There was also his hesitation to fire on the dirkirium creature when he was tactical officer on the USS Farragut. Something he was always angry at himself about then unjustly took that anger out on Ensign Garrovick. It wasn't until he realized that phasers go right thru the cloud creature that he forgave himself, and Garrovick.

I don't think Kirk is perfect. He had flaws. He didn't always do the right thing.

 

[James Wright]

You know it was the script writers that gave the character's of any trek series their interests and hobbies, now I don't know why so little character development was given to the character's of TOS, one answer might be the time period when the series was made, very few people understood what TOS was about in its first run, by the time people who would become fans of TOS the show had been canceled and was in reruns only so there couldn't be any character development for Kirk or any of the other TOS character's
Who knows what might've been had GR and the other writers had the time to develop the character's of TOS!

James

 

[Nerys Myk]

You know it was the script writers that gave the character's of any trek series their interests and hobbies, now I don't know why so little character development was given to the character's of TOS, one answer might be the time period when the series was made, very few people understood what TOS was about in its first run, by the time people who would become fans of TOS the show had been canceled and was in reruns only so there couldn't be any character development for Kirk or any of the other TOS character's
Who knows what might've been had GR and the other writers had the time to develop the character's of TOS!

James

They had their fair share of developement as others have pointed out. Kirks interest in history easlily matches Picard's interest in archeology. He likes coffee and Picard likes tea. Kirk starts off as a brooding guy with the weight of the galaxy ( or at least his ship) on his shoulders and manages to lighten up over the course of the series.

 

[James Wright]

I'm just saying that if TOS had run for 7 seasons we might've seen Kirk doing something that involved his interest in history, he showed some of it in "Patterns of Force".
In TNG Picard uses his interest in archaeology in 2 episodes, "The Chase" & "Gambit"

James

 

[Luther Sloan]

If you don't like Kirk. There is something wrong with you. It's a fact. No discussion. No debate.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm just saying that if TOS had run for 7 seasons we might've seen Kirk doing something that involved his interest in history, he showed some of it in "Patterns of Force".
In TNG Picard uses his interest in archaeology in 2 episodes, "The Chase" & "Gambit"

James

Uh "Omega Glory", "Spectre of the Gun" and "Savage Curtain" all feature Kirk's knowledge of history.

 

[James Wright]

Thanks for reminding me of those episodes, kinda forgot about them!

James