I've Been Charged with My First Misdemeanor!

[Kommander]

Whoever had "indecent exposure" in the pool I know you guys have, sorry. I know that seemed like a sure thing, but that's not what the charge is for. If someone had "selling metal to a scrap yard without a license," you win all the money.

Yeah, selling metal to a scrap yard without a license is a crime in Detroit, apparently.

I knew a license was required for collecting scrap metal in Detroit, and for that reason, I do the actual collecting in nearby locations that do not such licenses. However, my neighbor told me the other day the license is required to sell scrap metal in Detroit, and they usually get you at the scrap yard. A quick Google search produced conflicting information. I got tired of it after a few minutes, and I decided to not worry about it until I got ticketed.

Today, as I was shoving a stove off the back of my truck into the pile of ferrous metal, a cop pulled into the scrap yard and started ticketing everyone without a license. A fucking misdemeanor ticket.

So, I pulled up the actual ordinance I allegedly violated:

A person shall not operate a junk vehicle, or be employed by or assist a person operating a junk vehicle, or be engaged or perform as a junk collector in the city unless he or she holds a valid junk collector license, which shall be in the form of an identification badge issued pursuant to this division.

Hmm, I didn't do any of that, except maybe operating a junk vehicle...

Junk vehicle means a motor vehicle used to transport junk through the streets or alleys of the city for the purpose of collecting junk for sale, exchange, or other disposal for monetary or other consideration, but does not mean vehicles [... none of the exceptions apply.]

I didn't do any of that either. Overall I operate a vehicle for the purposes of collecting junk for resale, but this only applies to what I do in Detroit. The entirety of Section 49 referenced above applies to secondhand items. When I enter Detroit, I am carrying items that have legally become my property outside of Detroit, and therefore I do not see how "secondhand" applies here. Most are given to me directly. All I do in Detroit is sell, and that's different from "collect and sell." If an actual lawyer or law student would care to add their input, it would be greatly appreciated. My logical hair-splitting is different from legal hair-splitting. Although, I get my very own court-appointed attorney out of this, so, awesome?

if it's needed: Detroit ordinances: https://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=10649

Even if I am spot on in my assessment, being Detroit, I have a feeling the judge's response is going to be "whatever, we want money, so give us some." The maximum penalty is a $500 fine and 90 days in jail. More likely it'll be a less than $100 fine and maybe 90 days probation. Although, I've heard they drop the charges if one gets a junk license right away. I started setting money aside for one a week ago. Even if this gets dismissed outright, I don't have the time of energy to be fighting tickets all the time.

Aside from this bullshit, scrapping is pretty fun. It's like playing D&D, except I don't have to fight any Orcs, and I don't have to travel with an arrogant wizard and stuffy paladin. Wander around, find stuff, trade it for gold.

Also, this seems like a good time for a shameless plug for quality, Kommander-made chainmail goods. For the next month or so, 100% of profits go toward paying my legal fees and/or otherwise buying off Detroit's corrupt goons.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

How much is the junk license?

Sounds like a revenue bs thing.

Someone throws something out and you pick it up and sell it? Why should this require a license?

Scrapping sounds great btw.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

How much is the junk license?

Sounds like a revenue bs thing.

Someone throws something out and you pick it up and sell it? Why should this require a license?

It's because of stuff like this:

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/03...nother-detroit-building-cause-major-flooding/

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/03...stopping-illegal-scrappers-is-life-and-death/

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

OH I see. Yeah I had read about that and had a relative that lived in Ohio for years and had some just stories about neighborhood there.

 

[Kommander]

How much is the junk license?

The license is $95 a year, but to get one I need a surety bond for $2000, of which the pricing varies. At most 10% of the value, but I'm not sure if that's a one-time fee or how payments work. It's not much, but I started doing this because it pays slightly better than the temp agency I was working for, not because I'm in an optimal financial position to start a small business.

Although, the yard I go to has a program where they reimburse the cost of the license after one sells them a certain amount, but the whole "I'm poor and have no business capital" thing.

Sounds like a revenue bs thing.

Someone throws something out and you pick it up and sell it? Why should this require a license?

The revenue boost is secondary. It's mostly because of the rampant theft of metals in Detroit and the government making it look like they're doing something about it. Actually catching people stealing is difficult, so they make collecting metal without a license illegal. Catching people in the act of collecting scrap metal is also somewhat difficult, so they just pull into the scrap yard and start handing out tickets. There's all kinds of stories on the internet about people cleaning out their garage or basement, getting ticketed at the scrap yard, and wondering what the hell happened.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

I think their decision is based on this:

Junk vehicle means a motor vehicle used to transport junk through the streets or alleys of the city for the purpose of collecting junk for sale, exchange, or other disposal for monetary or other consideration, but does not mean vehicles [... none of the exceptions apply.]

This legal stuff is puzzling in any language. Had to read it thrice to get it.

I think it can't harm to ask the authorities how this surety bond works (one time payment or not).
It's propably the cheapest solution in the long run to get the license. This way you could also collect scrap metal all over town and not just in the surroundings. Shorter routes mean less spending on gas.

 

[Mudd]

Speeding over 85 miles an hour is a criminal misdemeanor in the state of Virginia. I'm a villain.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

not exactly what I'd call speeding. Come over to Bavaria! I usually go 110 mph on the Autobahn and it's perfectly legal =)

 

[Sector 7]

Speeding over 85 miles an hour is a criminal misdemeanor in the state of Virginia. I'm a villain.

As it should be. Many Virginians come to North Carolina and drive like maniacs. This is dangerous to those of us who live here.

not exactly what I'd call speeding. Come over to Bavaria! I usually go 110 mph on the Autobahn and it's perfectly legal =)

Most Americans cannot handle such speeds... although, in their own minds they believe they can.

 

[ThankQ]

Now you'll have to go on the Scrapyard Offenders Registry, they'll have to notify the neighborhood whenever you move, you won't be allowed to live within 500 feet of a landfill.. might as well have that big scarlet "J" tattooed on your forehead.

 

[Kirby]

I now have the Sanford and Son theme song running through my head...

Sounds like a cash grab by the city of Detroit. If you're collecting scrap outside the city, and only sell in the city. Can you just sell the scrap in a neighboring city?

 

[Alrik]

Sounds like a cash grab by the city of Detroit.

Considering the fact that Detroit is beyond broke, that's a pretty safe bet.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

I have to admit, I giggle every time I see the thread title. I know you didn't mean it this way, but you sound excited, like, oh wow, I finally got my first misdemeanor!

 

[Kommander]

Now you'll have to go on the Scrapyard Offenders Registry, they'll have to notify the neighborhood whenever you move, you won't be allowed to live within 500 feet of a landfill.. might as well have that big scarlet "J" tattooed on your forehead.

There's no room for a scarlet J with all the scarlet IDs, PNs, and XTNs the townsfolk have already tattooed on there. (ID for indecent exposure, PN for public nudity, and... well, you're better off not knowing what XTN stands for.

What's likely to happen is the court-appointed guy will try to get me to plea bargain, I''ll say "fuck that, I'm pleading "Not guilty," and they'll dismiss the case due to lack of evidence.

The employees at the scrap yard today confirmed that a license is not needed to sell scrap metal, and also told me it's one officer that does it, and he comes in once or twice every few months, and that these tickets are usually dismissed unless one does something stupid like plea bargain or admit to collecting stuff in the city.

I now have the Sanford and Son theme song running through my head...

I'm not a junk dealer, I'm an Independent Recycling Specialist... at least, that's what I tell hippy girls I flirt with.

Although, the guy I work with sometimes does kind of look like Lamont, and i call him a "big dummy" pretty often... and lately I've been experiementing with Ripple-based cocktails, which is strange because they don't even make Ripple anymore.

Sounds like a cash grab by the city of Detroit. If you're collecting scrap outside the city, and only sell in the city. Can you just sell the scrap in a neighboring city?

If it was just a cash grab, it would probably be just a civil infraction instead of a misdemeanor. As mentioned, it's a token response to rampant theft. But yes, it is in part a cash grab. I could sell outside the city, but I could still be ticked while driving with a loaded up truck (I live in Hamtramck, which is an enclave inside Detroit, so I have to drive through the city to get home.) The scrap yards are closed when I collect things, so I can't sell it on my way. That, and the Detroit yards pay a little bit more.

Anyway, if the court proceedings seem to not be going to my liking, I just make a speech about how I wasn't collecting in Detroit without a license, but that I wished I had, and then demand trial by combat.

 

[Trekker4747]

Wow, Detroit really is one messed up city.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Even if I am spot on in my assessment, being Detroit, I have a feeling the judge's response is going to be "whatever, we want money, so give us some." The maximum penalty is a $500 fine and 90 days in jail. More likely it'll be a less than $100 fine and maybe 90 days probation. Although, I've heard they drop the charges if one gets a junk license right away. I started setting money aside for one a week ago. Even if this gets dismissed outright, I don't have the time of energy to be fighting tickets all the time.

If the state isn't waiving jail time (even suspended time) you're entitled to a lawyer. Depending on how much money you make, you might be entitled to court appointed counsel. You can feel free to make the arguments yourself, but a lawyer can see if there's ever been any cases that made the same argument you're making and has experience arguing before the Judge before. My guess is the state's theory is that "perform as a junk dealer" would include selling scrap in Detroit, even if collected elsewhere, but I have no idea. I agree that the definition of "junk vehicle" only talks about collecting in Detroit (even if collecting for the purpose of sale).

Although, yeah, if they drop it if you get a license, that's probably worth it. I just don't think a misdemeanor conviction for something you're not guilty of is worth it except in extreme circumstances.

Speeding over 85 miles an hour is a criminal misdemeanor in the state of Virginia. I'm a villain.

More specifically, a class 1 misdemeanor - the most serious non-felony charge (same as domestic assault, petit embezzlement, hit and run, driving under the influence, etc.), punishable by up to 12 months in jail and a $2500 fine.

Also, it's not driving over 85. It's driving over 80 MPH or 20 MPH over. So if the speed limit is 70 (as it is in quite a few areas) and you're 10 MPH over, it's reckless driving. Likewise, if the speed limit is 40 and you're going 61, it's reckless. Many jurisdictions do have a policy of jail time if you go over 90 MPH as well.

 

[scotpens]

I have to admit, I giggle every time I see the thread title. I know you didn't mean it this way, but you sound excited, like, oh wow, I finally got my first misdemeanor!

Yeah, it's kind of like saying he finally lost his virginity.

 

[Kommander]

I have to admit, I giggle every time I see the thread title. I know you didn't mean it this way, but you sound excited, like, oh wow, I finally got my first misdemeanor!

Yeah, it's kind of like saying he finally lost his virginity.

Actually, that was precisely how I meant for it to come off.

 

[Mudd]

Speeding over 85 miles an hour is a criminal misdemeanor in the state of Virginia. I'm a villain.

More specifically, a class 1 misdemeanor - the most serious non-felony charge (same as domestic assault, petit embezzlement, hit and run, driving under the influence, etc.), punishable by up to 12 months in jail and a $2500 fine.

Also, it's not driving over 85. It's driving over 80 MPH or 20 MPH over. So if the speed limit is 70 (as it is in quite a few areas) and you're 10 MPH over, it's reckless driving. Likewise, if the speed limit is 40 and you're going 61, it's reckless. Many jurisdictions do have a policy of jail time if you go over 90 MPH as well.

Yeah, I think I just remember getting the ticket for going 85. It was a hassle, but the jurisdiction in question was much more interested in collecting the substantial fine than they were in otherwise punishing evildoers, so I got the thing down to simple speeding, paying the fine and court costs.

 

[Mudd]

not exactly what I'd call speeding. Come over to Bavaria! I usually go 110 mph on the Autobahn and it's perfectly legal =)

Yeah, but on the other hand we can own all the guns we want.

Wow, Detroit really is one messed up city.

So they say.