Ivanova in B5 Season 5

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Joe Washington, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Joe Washington

    Joe Washington Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    To those who have seen Babylon 5, do you think having Ivanova as station commander would have improved the show's fifth and final season?
     
  2. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You can never have too much Ivanova. (BTW, I did a double take on your name. I have an old friend named Joe Washington and have never observed you posting before.)
     
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  3. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    It's a little hard to say. You can't just find-and-replace Lochley with her, she would've had her own character arc, and it's one that would've been weighed down because it would be tied directly in with season 5's critical flaw, the stretching out of the telepath storyline. I don't know how it would feel for her to rebound from Marcus to sanctimonious Marcus-lite so quickly.

    Though given that, IIRC, CC wanted to be in fewer episodes, she may have ended up having more involvement in the Centauri storyline than Lochley did, which could've been interesting.
     
  4. Eman1986

    Eman1986 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    That was one of the characters that I always failed to see as very different or better than Kira Nerys. Not sure if that sounds bad. Were not comparing to DS9, so I'll shut up.

    I think the show should have ended a season earlier in my honest opinion.
     
  5. Joe Washington

    Joe Washington Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I used to post threads here from time to time. But I stopped doing that months ago. I didn't see the fun in it anymore. Then the Ivanova thread idea came to me. I couldn't resist.
     
  6. LJones41

    LJones41 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The only thing that needed improvement during Season Five of "Babylon 5" was the initial portrayal of the telepath refugees. I found the whole "flower children" schtick a bit hard to swallow. That was it, as far as I'm concerned. I love Susan Ivanova. But I also loved Elizabeth Lochley. She added something new to the series.

    I never understood the antipathy toward the series' last season. Did you wanted the show to end with a major victory of some kind? May I assume that you didn't want to see the aftermath of both the Shadow War and the Earth Civil War?
     
  7. Joe Washington

    Joe Washington Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I took no issue with the series exploring the aftermath of its major conflicts. I just didn't like how certain aspects of the aftermath were handled.
     
  8. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Commodore Commodore

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    You have to remember that with Season 5 originally the A-plot was going to be the War With Earth, while the Telepath storyline and the Centauri storyline would’ve been “B” and “C” lines. However, because the Earth War was moved up to Season 4, all that was left were the “B” and “C” plots. And had the Earth War still been in Season 5, Ivonova probably would’ve been involved in that.
     
  9. flavaflav

    flavaflav Captain Premium Member

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    Not quite. JMS stated in the script books the Earth War plot would have been wrapped up within the first couple of season 5 episodes and the rest of the season would have been similar to what we got. My memory is a bit hazy since I haven't read them in years, but Jan could probably give the full story.
     
  10. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don’t think you can compare Ivonova to Kira, except that both are tough powerful women with angry streaks. They have very different damage. Kira makes close personal connections readily and has hostility toward outside aliens she has to get past, whereas Ivonova readily embraces aliens but has more personal issues and problems getting emotionally close to people.

    Ivonova in S5 probably would have been more involved in the council story. And Byron probably would have figured out she’s a latent telepath, which would have given her a very different arc than Lochley. Not to mention Lyta probably knew since S2, and might have tried to loop her into her money laundering.
     
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  11. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    One of the things that immediately occurs to me as a potential downside is that I liked Lochley helping Garibaldi out toward the end of the season, and with Ivanova that wouldn't have worked.
     
  12. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Also true, they can’t have plausibly given Ivonova a story of addiction at that point. Might have been Franklin giving that speech.
     
  13. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Possibly, though he wouldn't have been able to include the part about his friend overdosing...
     
  14. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Commodore Commodore

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    Not quite. As it is the Earth & Shadow Wars were shortened significantly for them both to appear in Season 4. The Earth War was suppose to take about1/2- 3/4 of the Season, with the establishment of the Alloance and the Fall out taking up the rest with the Telepath War playing a similar storyline to the Narn story from Season 3.
     
  15. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    I would have liked more of her, but for Ivanova, the character, she was much better of with a promotion and command of her own spiffy new Warlock class destroyer. Now if that could have shown up in "A View from the Gallery" to kick those red guys asses..... Well, it was certainly better than a relationship with telepathic Jim Jones. I know it's not a popular opinion but I think she lucked out not being in season 5's story the way it was supposed to run. Aren't people supposed to move on to new ranks and new postings? I can especially see her wanting to get away from there after recent events, it may have been unplanned but I thought it was more realistic than having her just stay right there, like a certain ship's crew was doing for 7 straight years at the time, same captain, same first officer, same cmo, same engineer and his robot buddy helmsman, same bumpy headed security chief. YMMV

    And I like Lochley and think she was a good addition. I'd hated to have her removed after having gotten to see her.
     
  16. flavaflav

    flavaflav Captain Premium Member

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    Where did JMS say this?

    edit: Volume 10 page 46 of the script books JMS states 'The Face of the Enemy' would have been the season 4 finale. That leaves 4 episodes from season 4 that would have been shifted to season 5 and barely shortens the Shadow War. I'll try to find the rest.

    edit#2: Volume 8 page 7 of the script books JMS says "the first four or five episodes of year five would have covered the removal of Clark and the creation of the newly formed Interstellar Alliance". Nowhere near half or 3/4 a season. You were getting a massive telepath dose regardless.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  17. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Actually it was only 6 years for the bumpy headed security chief and engineer, Geordi and Worf didn't end up in those positions until season 2.
    Most of the characters stayed in those same positions on the Enterprise-E too, so technically they were in those positions for at least 15 years, and possibly a lot more if you want to include the books, or depending on what the new Picard show establishes
     
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  18. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    To be fair, the bumpy headed security chief left and came back.
     
  19. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always really miss Ivanova in season 5 each time I do a rewatch. Lochley is fine and all but it's just a shame she wasn't there during the telepath arc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018