iTunes users: do you use Variable Bit Rate?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Meaning, when you import CDs into your iTunes library, do you disable or enable Variable Bit Rate for encoding? I've always wondered if this really has an appreciable effect on sound quality. I always used to just leave it enabled, assuming that VBR always sounds better, but now I'm not so sure. Your thoughts?

 

[ATimson]

I use VBR. It will never sound worse than CBR at the same target bitrate, and it might sound better and/or save you disc space.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The only problem seems to be that iTunes can never make up its mind as to whether to display songs at their "real" bitrate (if you have VBR turned on). It seems that each successive revision of iTunes alternates: first it displays only the 'target' bitrate (meaning, if you tell iTunes to rip at 256Kbps but have VBR turned on, it will still always display 256 as the bitrate, even when VBR causes it to be another rate), then the next revision will always display the true bitrate, then the *next* will go back to the way it was before, etc.

It plays hell with smart playlists, I'll say that much.

 

[ATimson]

It plays hell with smart playlists, I'll say that much.

Yes, well, with everything of mine ripped at the same bitrate, meaning the only different stuff is iTunes+ stuff from the store, it wouldn't really affect me anyways.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It plays hell with smart playlists, I'll say that much.

Yes, well, with everything of mine ripped at the same bitrate, meaning the only different stuff is iTunes+ stuff from the store, it wouldn't really affect me anyways.

So you never happened to rip when you were using a version of iTunes that displays the 'real' bitrate? Like I said, it seems to alternate. If you always rip at 256Kbps, and you turn on VBR, some versions of iTunes will still always display 256, and some will display the real bitrate. That's where the confusion is.

 

[ATimson]

So you never happened to rip when you were using a version of iTunes that displays the 'real' bitrate?

I'm sure I did, but since pretty much everything of mine is at the same target bitrate, I wouldn't be using that as a criteria in smart playlists.

 

[Chaos Descending]

I avoid all of that by ripping with a different program and only using iTunes as my music library organizer/iPod synchronizer.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I avoid all of that by ripping with a different program

Which one?

 

[Daedalus12]

For ripping CDs on windows I recommend anyone to use EAC. For transcoding to mp3 I recommend using the LAME encoder. For how to use eternal encoders like LAME with EAC see this page

The LAME switch I usually use to transcode Wavpack to MP3 for portable listening.

-V 2 --vbr-new --add-id3v2 --pad-id3v2 --ta "%a" --tt "%t" --tg "%m" --tl "%g" --ty "%y" --tn "%n" %s %d

Some note about the switch.

High quality: HiFi, home or quiet listening
-V3 --vbr-new (~175 kbps), -V2 --vbr-new (~190 kbps), -V1 --vbr-new (~210 kbps) or -V0 --vbr-new (~230 kbps) are recommended. These settings will produce transparent encoding (transparent = most people cannot distinguish the MP3 from the original in an ABX blind test). Audible differences between these presets exist, but are extremely rare.

 

[Sean Aaron]

I rip at 256kbps AAC only. I've read mixed stuff about VBR; depending on the kind of source it apparently will not turn out so great, so I'd rather not take the chance; given that I'm getting a 3G Nano and won't have the space for my entire collection anyway it's not too important to me to conserve it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Time for a silly question: How does VBR save disk space?

 

[David cgc]

That would be the "variable" part. The audio file only uses as many bits as it needs to reproduce a given instant of sound up to the specified maximum bit rate, rather than having the entire file have the same bitrate throughout, since some parts may be computationally simpler and don't require as much detail to sound right. Which is pretty much how MP3 and AAC achieve such massive compression anyway, cutting out extraneous information, but taken to the next level.

 

[Daedalus12]

I rip at 256kbps AAC only. I've read mixed stuff about VBR; depending on the kind of source it apparently will not turn out so great, so I'd rather not take the chance; given that I'm getting a 3G Nano and won't have the space for my entire collection anyway it's not too important to me to conserve it.

I've never heard such stuff from credible sources i.e. supported by a double blind ABX test. While there are problematic samples in which AAC has issues with but those are very specific and rare. Most of them cannot be easily solved just by increasing bitrate. However at any bitrate VBR always beats CBR. if you are paranoid then you can always rip at a quality level that will produce an average bitrate of 250.

Here is a table showing the expected average bitrate vs quality setting for the Nero AAC encoder.

Approx. average bitrate <-> Quality table

Bitrate          Quality
~15                 0.05    
~32                 0.15
~63                 0.25
~99                 0.35
~146                0.45
~197                0.55
~248                0.65
~299                0.75
~350                0.85
~401                0.95

 

[Alaedhros]

I rip at 256kbps AAC only. I've read mixed stuff about VBR; depending on the kind of source it apparently will not turn out so great, so I'd rather not take the chance; given that I'm getting a 3G Nano and won't have the space for my entire collection anyway it's not too important to me to conserve it.

I've never heard such stuff from credible sources i.e. supported by a double blind ABX test. While there are problematic samples in which AAC has issues with but those are very specific and rare. Most of them cannot be easily solved just by increasing bitrate. However at any bitrate VBR always beats CBR. if you are paranoid then you can always rip at a quality level that will produce an average bitrate of 250.

QFT. Whoever told you that VBR was worse than CBR was definitely on something (and I'd like some!). And please don't use 256 kbps, whether CBR or VBR. I don't think anyone can ABX that. I'm a quality snob myself and I 'only' use lame -V4.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And please don't use 256 kbps, whether CBR or VBR.

Why not?

I don't think anyone can ABX that.

What does that mean?

I'm a quality snob myself and I 'only' use lame -V4.

What if I prefer to stick with iTunes?

 

[Alaedhros]

^ Well, my post was really directed at CaptainSpock...

And please don't use 256 kbps, whether CBR or VBR.

Why not?

It's a waste of disc space; AAC can't really make effective use of that extra bitrate. To offer a flawed analogy, who would save images as TIFFs or bitmaps when PNG is available?

I don't think anyone can ABX that.

What does that mean?

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=ABX

I'm a quality snob myself and I 'only' use lame -V4.

What if I prefer to stick with iTunes?

Then, um, stick with iTunes? I don't recall making any player/ripper/encoder recommendations (beyond settings).

 

[Deleted 2]

It's a waste of disc space; AAC can't really make effective use of that extra bitrate. To offer a flawed analogy, who would save images as TIFFs or bitmaps when PNG is available?

People who need CMYK can't use PNG

 

[GMac]

To answer the original question, yes I do (doesn't matter whether it's CDEx or iTunes that's used as the extraction program). Tracks ripped that way do sound (to my untrained ear) that little bit better.....

GM

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Well, my post was really directed at CaptainSpock...

And please don't use 256 kbps, whether CBR or VBR.

Why not?

It's a waste of disc space; AAC can't really make effective use of that extra bitrate.

I figure it must have some use, since the iTunes Plus (non-DRM) songs on the iTunes Store are 256Kbps.

What bitrate would you recommend?

 

[Alaedhros]

It's a waste of disc space; AAC can't really make effective use of that extra bitrate. To offer a flawed analogy, who would save images as TIFFs or bitmaps when PNG is available?

People who need CMYK can't use PNG

Go away!

^ Well, my post was really directed at CaptainSpock...

Why not?

It's a waste of disc space; AAC can't really make effective use of that extra bitrate.

I figure it must have some use, since the iTunes Plus (non-DRM) songs on the iTunes Store are 256Kbps.

What bitrate would you recommend?

The lowest one that you can't ABX. If you're really too lazy to do that, though, for AAC it's probably 160 kbps.