Poll Is this 32nd century a keeper?

[ITDUDE]

Why do I have the distinct feeling Discovery and Boringham will figure out a way to go back to before The Burn and prevent it from happening in the first place, resetting the fall of Federation.
And they’ll possibly do it with Dark Matter/Spore Drive.
Anyone else get that vibe?

 

[Christopher]

Anyone else get that vibe?

Not even close. They've signaled from the start that this is permanent. In the closing 2-parter of season 2, it was stated explicitly that Discovery could never return to their own time, that the Sphere data was inseparably fused into the ship and that the ship therefore had to be kept out of Control's reach forever. The plot and emotion of the season's last two episodes revolved largely around the crew knowing that it was a one-way trip and choosing to make it anyway.

And in the season premiere, one of the first things Burnham learned from Book was that all known time travel methods had been destroyed before the Burn. After all, it's been a century or more since the Burn; if it were possible to reset it with time travel, someone would've already long since done so. This was the second way that the producers told us explicitly that this is NOT just another cliched, short-term time-travel plot.

After all, for two years, the show struggled with the difficulty of reconciling new storytelling and ideas with established 23rd-century continuity, and fans complained constantly about the clashes with how TOS portrayed that era. It seems clear to me that the producers want to leave all that behind. The very fact that they jumped forward a full 8 centuries tells us that they wanted to break with the past in a big way. If it were just another lazy time-travel reset plot, they didn't need to go that far ahead; they could've made it the 26th century.

Not to mention what a terrible waste it would be to do all this worldbuilding of a whole new era in the Trek universe, to devote a whole season to that, and then just erase it all. That doesn't even make sense. It would be incredibly frustrating to the audience, a huge and infuriating tease. I don't think they'd be that foolish.

Not to mention that the show is finally, finally working more smoothly than ever before. "Forget Me Not" was the most brilliant Trek episode I've seen since DS9. The show is immensely better in the 32nd century than it was in the 23rd. It's finally found itself, finally freed itself from the limitations of navigating around 50-year-old canon. They'd be out of their minds to undo that.

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't know. On the one hand, Michelle Paradise has said they're not going back. But I'll take that to mean they're just not going back to the 23rd Century.

On the other hand, they went out of their way to say time travel was banned after ENT's Temporal War. A) That was probably done to tie up a loose end. B) It was also done to explain why no one went back in time to stop The Burn. And C) Once you say "This is the rule, it's banned, it's illegal", you're just asking someone to break it.

So there could be Time Travel to undo The Burn. But I think they'll only go back 100-120 years to fix it. Burnham said she was determined to not let this future stand. That can be taken to mean she'll fix the one that exists or she'll change it. The wild card is Burnham's mother, who she's still looking for.

I know it sounds like a cop-out answer, but I can't read the tea leaves on this one. I could make a case either way.

 

[JoeZhang]

Absolutely no chance - it's a cheap get-out and I have read nothing that says anyone working on the show is interested.

Why bother having an arc where you rebuild the Federation if at the end of it you just reset it?

 

[ITDUDE]

I don't know. On the one hand, Michelle Paradise has said they're not going back. But I'll take that to mean they're just not going back to the 23rd Century.

On the other hand, they went out of their way to say time travel was banned after ENT's Temporal War. A) That was probably done to tie up a loose end. B) It was also done to explain why no one went back in time to stop The Burn. And C) Once you say "This is the rule, it's banned, it's illegal", you're just asking someone to break it.

So there could be Time Travel to undo The Burn. But I think they'll only go back 100-120 years to fix it. Burnham said she was determined to not let this future stand. That can be taken to mean she'll fix the one that exists or she'll change it. The wild card is Burnham's mother, who she's still looking for.

I know it sounds like a cop-out answer, but I can't read the tea leaves on this one. I could make a case either way.

That’s what I mean, they are not going back to 23rd century. But they can back 120 years, fix The Burn and stay in 30th century. So they’ll still be in the “Future”, but a nice and fuzzy Future.

 

[Dukhat]

That’s what I mean, they are not going back to 23rd century. But they can back 120 years, fix The Burn and stay in 30th century. So they’ll still be in the “Future”, but a nice and fuzzy Future.

That defeats the whole purpose of the story they’re trying to tell. They’re not trying to find a way to reset everything. They’re trying to find a way to rebuild the Federation.

If you want a nice and fuzzy future, watch Lower Decks.

 

[Christopher]

On the other hand, they went out of their way to say time travel was banned after ENT's Temporal War.

On the contrary -- they did the exact opposite of going out of their way. They casually mentioned it in passing and then moved on. Which tells me that they have no interest in pursuing it, that it was just a loose end they wanted to clear up as quickly as possible and set aside forever. They knew fans would be jumping to the kneejerk conclusion that this would be Just Another Time Travel Reset, and so they took a moment to say "Nuh-uh, we're not doing the obvious again, just deal with it." They took that moment, and they haven't said one word about it since. They were closing the door, not opening it.

So there could be Time Travel to undo The Burn. But I think they'll only go back 100-120 years to fix it.

That would be the laziest, dumbest, least interesting possible way to tell a story about rebuilding civilization after the fall. The reason other Trek series have used time travel to reset catastrophes is because they were not about those catastrophes. The catastrophes were exceptions to their status quo and thus had to be reset to restore the status quo. But this is different. Now, the aftermath of the catastrophe is the entire thing the series is about. It's not a diversion from the story, it is the story. It's a story that can generate years, even decades of narrative possibilities. It's a failure of imagination to think they don't want to embrace that fully.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Why do I have the distinct feeling Discovery and Boringham will figure out a way to go back to before The Burn and prevent it from happening in the first place, resetting the fall of Federation.
And they’ll possibly do it with Dark Matter/Spore Drive.
Anyone else get that vibe?

You lost me at Boringham.

 

[Lord Garth]

That would be the laziest, dumbest, least interesting possible way to tell a story about rebuilding civilization after the fall. The reason other Trek series have used time travel to reset catastrophes is because they were not about those catastrophes. The catastrophes were exceptions to their status quo and thus had to be reset to restore the status quo. But this is different. Now, the aftermath of the catastrophe is the entire thing the series is about. It's not a diversion from the story, it is the story. It's a story that can generate years, even decades of narrative possibilities. It's a failure of imagination to think they don't want to embrace that fully.

I'm not in favor of this. I'm just looking at possibilities.

I haven't actually said what I hope for.

EDITED TO ADD: When I analyze things, I try to leave my own opinion out of it.

 

[ITDUDE]

Well, you all read it here first. I’ll remind everyone of this post when I end up being right

 

[Dukhat]

I don’t think any of us care if you’re right or not. This isn’t a contest.

 

[ITDUDE]

I don’t think any of us care if you’re right or not. This isn’t a contest.

Oh but it is

 

[Noname Given]

Dukhat said: ↑
I don’t think any of us care if you’re right or not. This isn’t a contest.

Oh but it is

If that's the case, it's a contest one and only one person in this thread actually cares about

 

[JoeZhang]

Besides being lazy - what would the point of Book or Grey or well.. anyone they meet?

 

[ITDUDE]

Besides being lazy - what would the point of Book or Grey or well.. anyone they meet?

Book and Adira/Grey will come with them. We already know Books ship fits inside Discovery. How convenient

 

[Dukhat]

Yeah, reset buttons aren’t going to happen here.

 

[Christopher]

It's worth recalling that Bryan Fuller's original concept for the show would be a seasonal anthology that started pre-TOS and jumped decades forward in the timeline every season until it moved past the TNG era into uncharted territory. In a way, the show has finally fulfilled that original intention, although in a single, much larger step than Fuller probably envisioned.

Of course, I think what really inspired this jump was how well "Calypso" was received. They're certainly working in clear references from that short -- V'draysh, Zora -- even though it's not exactly the same time frame and the way Discovery got to the future doesn't track with what the short portrayed (just sitting abandoned for a thousand years). Still, it was probably "Calypso"'s popularity, the way it captured people's imaginations, that prompted the decision to jump to this era and fulfill the potential of its concepts, albeit with some tweaks to the details. Maybe it showed them how much interest there was in moving the Trek timeline forward again instead of backward.

 

[XCV330]

It's worth recalling that Bryan Fuller's original concept for the show would be a seasonal anthology that started pre-TOS and jumped decades forward in the timeline every season until it moved past the TNG era into uncharted territory. In a way, the show has finally fulfilled that original intention, although in a single, much larger step than Fuller probably envisioned.

Of course, I think what really inspired this jump was how well "Calypso" was received. They're certainly working in clear references from that short -- V'draysh, Zora -- even though it's not exactly the same time frame and the way Discovery got to the future doesn't track with what the short portrayed (just sitting abandoned for a thousand years). Still, it was probably "Calypso"'s popularity, the way it captured people's imaginations, that prompted the decision to jump to this era and fulfill the potential of its concepts, albeit with some tweaks to the details. Maybe it showed them how much interest there was in moving the Trek timeline forward again instead of backward.

The reason Calypso was popular had nothing to do with what time period it was set in. You could tell very little about the time period, and we only know what the V'Draysh is because Chabon admitted it. Calypso worked because it was a well crafted, well acted story, crafted from a well known classical antecedent.

 

[JoeZhang]

Book and Adira/Grey will come with them. We already know Books ship fits inside Discovery. How convenient

How can they come with them? They will not exist in any way that makes the characters who they are.

Even if they don't vanish - then Discovery has committed a terrible crime by erasing their present.

 

[Christopher]

The reason Calypso was popular had nothing to do with what time period it was set in.

I never said it was. I said the inverse of that: That the short made the time period popular. That the makers of DSC chose that time period because they wanted to build on the short's popularity.

and we only know what the V'Draysh is because Chabon admitted it.

I found it pretty easy to figure out just from the sound of the word. But that's not the issue. Again you're getting my point about cause and effect backward. I'm saying Discovery used the name "V'Draysh" in "Far From Home" (and will probably use it again going forward) to follow the lead of "Calypso."

How can they come with them? They will not exist in any way that makes the characters who they are.

Even if they don't vanish - then Discovery has committed a terrible crime by erasing their present.

In Trek, characters who travel through time are never "erased" when their original timelines are changed (except in TNG: "Time Squared"). The near-future O'Brien in "Visionary" retained his memories of his timeline after it was changed. Sisko and Bashir in "Past Tense" weren't erased when the death of Gabriel Bell erased the Federation timeline. After all, why should they be? They've left the timeline in question. They're not in it when it's changed, so they're immune to the change.

Although of course it's a moot point, since they're not going to use time travel to undo the Burn.