Is the Star Wars universe stagnant?

[Gotham Central]

Has anyone noticed that there appears to be a complete lack of technological progress in the Star Wars universe? All of the technology present in the Star Wars films is in use in knights of the Old Republic and The Old Republic. Indeed, fast forward to the Legacy era and the technology appears to have stayed the same.

This seems to be a universe where nothing really changes.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Has anyone noticed that there appears to be a complete lack of technological progress in the Star Wars universe? All of the technology present in the Star Wars films is in use in knights of the Old Republic and The Old Republic. Indeed, fast forward to the Legacy era and the technology appears to have stayed the same.

This seems to be a universe where nothing really changes.

Oh, I've noticed it.

It's one of the things I don't really like about the Knights of the Old Republic stuff. It's basically the same universe, so it feels the same with different faces.

 

[6079SmithW]

Yeah. The start of the Tales of the Jedi series depicts the primitive versions of a lot of tech that exists in the movie (starship design, crude lightsabers, blaster tech) but even within the timeframe of these stories the tech becomes the standard fare we are used to.

So, based on Tales and KOTOR I'd say the star wars universe has had the same tech for almost 4,000 years.

 

[Mr Light]

It's pretty hard for them to drastically change the tech level without changing the nature of Star Wars too much. You need space ships and lightsabers but you don't want teleportation or time travel or god-like aliens.

 

[Professor Zoom]

It's pretty hard for them to drastically change the tech level without changing the nature of Star Wars too much. You need space ships and lightsabers but you don't want teleportation or time travel or god-like aliens.

But do you NEED faster than light space ships?

Actually, do you NEED lightsabers?

And what would be wrong about changing the nature of Star Wars?

Tell a story that takes place on one planet, might be good for a change.

 

[6079SmithW]

^ You need FTL ships in order to make a space adventure work. They are a plot device to get people around space in a timely fashion.

The Jedi are an integral part of Star Wars (in fact they are the basis upon which Star Wars is founded) and the lightsaber is their defining symbol which sets them apart from everyone else. To remove either Jedi or the saber from a plot would severely detract from it. In fact, it wouldn't even be star wars at that point.

Changing the nature of an established franchise will drive away its fan base and deprive it of revenue.

 

[Professor Zoom]

^ You need FTL ships in order to make a space adventure work. They are a plot device to get people around space in a timely fashion.

The Jedi are an integral part of Star Wars (in fact they are the basis upon which Star Wars is founded) and the lightsaber is their defining symbol which sets them apart from everyone else. To remove either Jedi or the saber from a plot would severely detract from it. In fact, it wouldn't even be star wars at that point.

What did the Jedi use before light sabers? Or did they all happen at the same time?

I feel like you aren't trusting the authors to be imaginative and surprise you.

Changing the nature of an established franchise will drive away its fan base and deprive it of revenue.

Sure. It might be a risk. But, then fanboys seem to be stuff they hate...

I don't think showing change is altering the nature of a fictional universe. It might breath life into it.

 

[P0sitr0nic]

What did the Jedi use before light sabers? Or did they all happen at the same time?

Believe it or not, swords.

I don't think showing change is altering the nature of a fictional universe. It might breath life into it.

Comlinks changed. In phantom menace, they were the size of a ladies razor. In ANH, they were a small microphone.

um..... yeah thats it.

 

[6079SmithW]

^Well, going with the EU, the earliest versions of lightsabers occur at least 4,000 years before ANH, probably older. The Jedi themselves (or rather their force-philosopher precursors) were in existence as a group when the Republic formed, so they are at least 25,000 years old, probably much older.

These early pre-Jedi had The forge where they would create swords and imbue them with the Force and they even glowed in saber-like colors. So its kind of the same concept. I guess it really depends when the author sets their story.

Of course one doesn't necessarily need to incorporate jedi, the force, or sabers into their story but I think in most cases the lack of these things takes away from the Star Warsy-ness of a story. It would be a hard sell, in my opinion. Also, most EU literature I have read or heard about involve the Jedi and their sabers and the Force. Again, this is the foundation upon which Star Wars is built.

 

[Professor Zoom]

What did the Jedi use before light sabers? Or did they all happen at the same time?

Believe it or not, swords.

That's what I would imagine. A medieval Jedi story, sounds interesting...

I think sometimes there's so much fear about TRYING something. The resistance is amazing, and I don't think think the resistance is only on the part of the creators (ie Lucas, LucasArts, etc) but also with the fans.

 

[6079SmithW]

^ The issue would be that these wouldn't even be Jedi, at least not as we know the order. There was no Jedi or Sith back then. There wasn't even a Republic or lasers (they used guns). My point is this presentation of the Star Wars universe, although correct regarding EU canon, would be entirely unrecognizable as Star Wars to the average person.

Personally, I'd love to read or watch a 'medieval jedi" story but would a lot of other people? Would it sell as a mass market paper back or a movie or Tv series? For good sales you need general audience appeal.

 

[Professor Zoom]

^ The issue would be that these wouldn't even be Jedi, at least not as we know the order. There was no Jedi or Sith back then. There wasn't even a Republic or lasers. My point is this presentation of the Star Wars universe, although correct regarding EU canon, would be entirely unrecognizable as Star Wars to the average person.

The average person? The average person wouldn't care. It's not like it would be made as a movie. The average person doesn't buy EU stuff. I'm a Star Wars fan and I don't by the EU stuff.

And why couldn't there be Jedi using swords? Again, what did they use before light sabers? They had to use SOMETHING.

And how do you know there were no Jedi or Sith... it's fiction, right? If the story is written, then it is...

 

[6079SmithW]

^ If we are not using the EU canon as a basis then all bets are off, of course. I was just trying to relate what the Star Wars universe looked like in its past based on the sources available. The ancient jedi precursors did use swords, as me and another person pointed out. My issue is the Jedi and the lightsaber are heavily associated and are the symbol of Star Wars and to not have these, or remove one from the other, could be detrimental.

I think I've found the main point of disagreement between us: You believe that, as fiction, the Star Wars story can be ret-conned, re-imagined, or re-written at any time. It is, after all, just a made up story that anyone could alter if they really wanted to. I think there is an internal continuity to all fictional stories and since the only source for that continuity I have is the EU I stick to it unless it in contradicted on screen. YMMV.

 

[Professor Zoom]

^ If we are not using the EU canon as a basis then all bets are off, of course. I was just trying to relate what the Star Wars universe looked like in its past based on the sources available. The ancient jedi precursors did use swords, as me and another person pointed out. My issue is the Jedi and the lightsaber are heavily associated and are the symbol of Star Wars and to not have these, or remove one from the other, could be detrimental.

Detrimental to whom or what?

I think I've found the main point of disagreement between us: You believe that, as fiction, the Star Wars story can be ret-conned, re-imagined, or re-written at any time. It is, after all, just a made up story that anyone could alter if they really wanted to. I think there is an internal continuity to all fictional stories and since the only source for that continuity I have is the EU I stick to it unless it in contradicted on screen. YMMV.

Actually, I don't think that's our main point of disagreement. I think the main point of our disagreement is whether or not you could tell a story set in a pre-light saber world and it still be Star Wars. Or a pre FTL.

And I think you can. I don't think it would be a story that would appeal to the masses, but then 99% of all the Star Wars material out there (books, comics, computer games, wookiepedia, etc) doesn't appeal to the masses either, and hasn't been seen.

But, I do think it would appeal to the Star Wars fanbase who DO read the novels.

I agree with you that the Jedi and the lightsaber are heavily associated with Star Wars. But, I disagree that it's a limitation to a story.

Why can't you tell a story about the Jedi pre-lightsaber? I don't understand why you can't. It's a Jedi with force push, force speed, who has a sword because light sabers haven't been invented yet. A story of long ago, longer ago than Episode I.

I do think it is all fictional and can be rewritten (with in reason, not like making Luke and Leia lovers, that would be absurd. ). But, my point is, just because there HASN'T been a story set in a time before a lot of technological innovation doesn't mean there CAN'T be.

Hell, make it the story of how the light saber came to be...

The technological stagnation of the Star Wars universe does sorta irk me. And I feel like all of the tech is there is say SEE THIS IS STAR WARS. But, to me, it's window dressing, not the substance.

To me, the substance is a fight between good and evil, whereas Star Trek, is more about exploration and IDIC.

 

[6079SmithW]

OK. I can go along with that. A story can be Star Wars without the familiar trappings like sabers or Jedi-jedis, I think its just easier to market it with these familiar trappings. I would really love to read about ancient sword wielding force users who aren't really dark or light sided.

Oh, and yes the tech stagnation really bothers me as well. These people have had basically the same method of space transportation, hyperdrive, with minor renovations, for at least 25,000 years. I mean, even starfleet was experimenting with transwarp and slipstream just 350-ish years after discovering warp speed.

 

[Professor Zoom]

OK. I can go along with that. A story can be Star Wars without the familiar trappings like sabers or Jedi-jedis, I think its just easier to market it with these familiar trappings. I would really love to read about ancient sword wielding force users who aren't really dark or light sided.

Exactly. I think the possibility is really interesting. And it would be marketed at Star Wars fans who do read the novels. (I sound like I'm pitching something to an editor...)

It's a story of limited market appeal, but, then, it would probably work for the novels or the comics.

 

[6079SmithW]

Yeah, but a lot of the current EU books focus on the movie era or relatively recent events like the Bane trilogy, which is only 1000 years before ANH. The story we've been talking about would need to be probably closer to 100,000 years prior. I just don't know if there is much of a demand for that kind of story in book or comic form. Like you said it would have limited market appeal.

Maybe me and you can make this kind of story and get it published.

 

[Sephiroth]

with no FTL than you can't have factions/races in other STAR systems to go to WAR with

 

[6079SmithW]

True, but a story about the beginnings of the jedi could be set on one planet and the initial war between light and dark sides can take place there too. In fact, this is how it happened in the EU cannon. The jedi beginnings and the first force war took place on the planet Tython.

 

[Jono]

Can't say I'm bothered by it. In GFFA is that technological might is not the true power of the galaxy: it is the Force. That a galaxy that is trapped in a seemingly unended cylce of destrution and renewal due to whether the Light or Dark of side reigns is technologically plateaued seems somewhat fitting.