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Is the position of Operations Officer a redundant one?

indolover

Fleet Captain
The Ops officer (Data in TNG, O'Brien in DS9 and Kim in Voyager) was supposedly responsible for the upkeep of the systems on the ship.

But the Chief Engineer did this also. Geordi, Chief O'Brien or B'Elanna would run a diagnostic from time to time (whether Level 1 or Level 2, etc.)

So, isn't the position of Ops officer an invalid one? Why is there a need for the job, if the responsibilities of it can be carried out by the Chief Engineer?

I guess my confusion is as so. A ship's systems involve the warp drive, and the main computer. So as with any information system, there needs to be maintenance performed on it, whether corrective (correcting pre-existing faults in it), perfective (improving the hardware/software that already exists), adaptive (adapting the system to suit new environments) and preventative (preventing faults occurring in the long-run of its use).

So isn't the Chief Engineer usurping on the role of the Ops officer by running diagnostics or performing maintenance?
 
My understanding is the chief engineer is in charge of engineering, but the operations officer is supposed to be in charge of the day to day allocation of resources such as power on the ship.
It may be a more engineering-ish job on board a station, like DS9.
 
OK. But we have seen in a lot of episodes that the Chief Engineer also manages the systems. Many times Geordi or B'Elanna have been seen to repair EPS conduits, or gel-packs in Voyager's case.

I think the overlap is one reason why we always saw La Forge and Data, or Torres and Kim, working together.

It just seems a bit odd, since in any organisation it makes little sense to have a position (especially a major one) that has a huge overlap with another position. In that sense, the job has not been well analysed, and thus is not wholly valid.
 
Ops is hugely important. Data was always monitoring the progress of any away team from his station.

Tactical and helm both have enough to do without taking on additional duties.
 
OK. But we have seen in a lot of episodes that the Chief Engineer also manages the systems. Many times Geordi or B'Elanna have been seen to repair EPS conduits, or gel-packs in Voyager's case.

I think the overlap is one reason why we always saw La Forge and Data, or Torres and Kim, working together.

It just seems a bit odd, since in any organisation it makes little sense to have a position (especially a major one) that has a huge overlap with another position. In that sense, the job has not been well analysed, and thus is not wholly valid.
Its a TV show not a documentary on organisational efficiency. Stuff gets done by the actors who get paid the most. Thats why Spock got to do stuff that Scotty should have done. ;)
 
The OPS station always seemed like a kludge on the TNG bridge, and I wish subsequent shows had just ignored it and moved back toward TOS-style bridge stations.

But as is, it's a sort of science officer/systems status/catch-all station made possible by a century of systems automation in the time since TOS.

So I wouldn't say it's redundant, just poorly defined as to whatever the script needs the character sitting there to say.
 
In RL, the two are wildly separate.

The Cheng (or EO, depending on service) is the person who keeps the engines running, the lights burning, and things working.

The OPS Boss is the guy/person who handles the operations -- namely, getting the mission done, watching the intel come in, making recommendations where the ship's to go (CO makes the final call, of course), etc.

Basically, the OPS Boss plans where to go, while the EO/Cheng gets you there.

No way in heck did I ever want our OPS Boss near my engine room. He was allowed to look through the door window -- that was it. :)

Cheers,
-CM-
 
I've never been particularly convinced that most every position on a starship was a redundant one...
 
^Although firing photon torpedoes somehow undoes the automation. I never really understood that. I could live with the patched-up wreck of a ship's power distribution system (bereft of constant maintenance by its nominal crew of 400) just totally breaking, but why would "automation centers" be blown out by the action of firing, or doing anything?

I always loved early TOS fire control procedure, too:

Captain: "Fire phasers."
Other guy on the bridge: "Fire phasers."
Actual phaser guy: "Firing phasers." [presses button]
 
No way in heck did I ever want our OPS Boss near my engine room. He was allowed to look through the door window -- that was it. :)

For some reason this brought to mind the episode where Q is made human and he and Data are helping a project in Engineering. At some point Geordie tells Q where to stick it and how far, and Q asks Data "who does he think he is?" To which Data replies something like: "he is the Chief Engineer, and he is in charge." So even in certain situations, the OPS officer would help with engineering things, but I imagine that would really come down to the individual officer and his/her skill set. And he would report to the CHENG, even if the OPS officer was the second officer.
 
The ops officer position was thought up at the last minute. Originally, Data was supposed to be the science officer. But Brent Spiner didn't look good in a blue uniform, so they put him in a gold uniform and changed his position to operations officer since blue was still being used for science.
 
Ideally, the Operations officer is in charge of managing the ship's resources (sensors, computers, power distribution, etc.). In a sense, he/she is the liaison between the bridge and all the other departments aboards the ship and can monitor and--if necessary--take control of various functions on the ship.
 
Whilst a lot of people in here have most likely nailed the difference between the Ops Manager and Chief Engineer, Star Trek seems to have this habit of making the officers of those two positions interchangable. For example, I can just as easily imagine Data being the Chief Engineer and Geordi at Ops (in fact, in Parallels, Data took over engineering when Geordi was incapcitated, and Geordi took over at Ops in Powerplay when Data was possessed.) Harry Kim and B'Ellana switched positions now and then, O'Brien was both, and even the Science Officers of both TOS and ENT seem to assist the engineering department from time to time.
 
Whilst a lot of people in here have most likely nailed the difference between the Ops Manager and Chief Engineer, Star Trek seems to have this habit of making the officers of those two positions interchangable. For example, I can just as easily imagine Data being the Chief Engineer and Geordi at Ops (in fact, in Parallels, Data took over engineering when Geordi was incapcitated, and Geordi took over at Ops in Powerplay when Data was possessed.) Harry Kim and B'Ellana switched positions now and then, O'Brien was both, and even the Science Officers of both TOS and ENT seem to assist the engineering department from time to time.
Thing is, this is true to varying degrees of MANY officers, from all departments. As you mentioned, science officers would sometimes assist with repairs, as would security officers (Worf, in an ep whose name escapes me - I'll find it later if anyone is curious - showed up in engineering during a crisis. Geordi sees him and comments that he's just the man he wanted to see, that he could really use Worfs help with getting the shields up and running again). This may be less true with enlisted personnel, but with full, academy-graduated officers, there seems to be a LOT of fairly high-end cross-training.
The Ops officer (Data in TNG, O'Brien in DS9 and Kim in Voyager) was supposedly responsible for the upkeep of the systems on the ship.
Not really, no. Where was it ever stated that the main role of the Ops officer was ship/system upkeep? Granted, the Ops officer on each show DID do maintenance and upkeep (and I think that of all the positions, operations and engineering may have the most training/tasks in common), but nowhere was it established that keeping things running was the primary responsibility of operations. Things were a bit hazy with Data, especially early on, but that's because (as someone pointed out) the entire idea of an operations department had just been invented, and prior to that, the idea of Data being a science officer had been tossed about. Even though that may be the real reason that Data operated the sensors so much, I think that in-universe, that makes some sense. Science officers are analyzing data as it comes in, and using the sensor arrays to scan specific anomalies, or look for specific types of readings. But it's the Ops officers who monitor the more general, constant scanning that goes on. Ops is the guy with the binoculars, scanning both the water below and the skies above for threats, other vessels, objects of interest, etc. Science is the guy with the more specialized equipment who analyzes said objects of interest after they have been found (in the same way that tactical would be the guy who is chiefly responsible for handling a threat once it's been found).

Aside from that, as others have mentioned, Ops handles resource allocation, acting as the link that binds all the other departments together in terms of figuring out who gets to do what with sensor arrays, laboratories with special equipment, and overall available power. They do seem to do a lot of repair work, but my interpretation was always that the engineers have more of a focus on hardware in general, and propulsion systems in particular, whereas operations officers are your computer repair technicians. There definitely IS overlap, though, especially if an individual officer - regardless of department - displays that he or she simply is well-suited to a particular repair job.

Another aspect of their job that I see is, in fact, BEING redundant. Intentionally so. All available tactical officers are tied up during a crisis, yet there is another tactical-oriented job that needs to be done? Operations can do that. Engineering is full with repairs in engineering, leaving no one available to tackle the problems in the computer core? Operations can do that. And so on.

O'Brien was a weird case in that he seemed to be both the Ops Manager and Chief Engineer (certainly, on the Defiant, there was no question that he was the man in charge in engineering). His title was "chief of operations", but I think in that case, that was meant to be a more general, overarching descriptor of his role as "master of all things technical" on the station. A proper starship "operations officer" as seen in Kim and Data would have a role more distinct from (yet still similar to in some ways) an engineering officer, as I've described above.

That's my take, anyway.
 
I could see how an officer in charge of defense/offense systems (Worf) might be able to lend a hand reparing shields. We've seen Uhura do repairs on the communication systems too.
 
I just wanted to interject some additional confusion.

Is Operations Manager (Ops, Data) the same as Chief of Operations (O'Brien)?

Data seemed to be more resource management, O'Brien more engineer and maintenance, and this has been mentioned already.

But if these are all regarded as the same Operations position, how can we account for the seeming discrepancy in ranks?

With Data, it would seem to be a high level position, to be held by a senior officer.

With O'Brien, the position is held by a petty officer (or whatever lesser rank you attribute to poor Miles).

With Kim, the position is held by an ensign, a raw graduate right out of the academy.

So what exactly are the qualifications for this Ops position?
Does it require a senior officer, junior officer, what?
Does it depend on the nature of the posting?
 
I just wanted to interject some additional confusion.

Is Operations Manager (Ops, Data) the same as Chief of Operations (O'Brien)?
Probably, but it may be that the positions are called different things at different posts. Kim was referred to as Operations Officer on the Voyager. There's also the possibility that "Chief of Operations" is what you'd call a noncom or enlisted person holding down that job.
Data seemed to be more resource management, O'Brien more engineer and maintenance, and this has been mentioned already.

But if these are all regarded as the same Operations position, how can we account for the seeming discrepancy in ranks?

With Data, it would seem to be a high level position, to be held by a senior officer.

With O'Brien, the position is held by a petty officer (or whatever lesser rank you attribute to poor Miles).

With Kim, the position is held by an ensign, a raw graduate right out of the academy.

So what exactly are the qualifications for this Ops position?
Does it require a senior officer, junior officer, what?
Does it depend on the nature of the posting?
Likely the very last thing you mentioned.

Different posts have different billets, IMO. On various ships and outposts, the ops position can be handled by any commissioned officer from commander to ensign, depending on its specific chain of command. On the Voyager, it rated only an ensign. On DS9, it rated a noncom because it was originally a remote, almost backwater facility of no real strategic importance and O'Brien was likely considered the best man for the job.
 
It make a lot of sense that Worf could do repairs in engineering. Not just because he's in charge of ship's defensive systems, but because of his role for his first year on the Enterprise. It seemed that he was an all around bridge officer on the fast track to commanding his own ship. He flew the ship, filled in for Data at ops, stood in at tactical, was part of several security teams, worked in engineering, his main station were the aft science stations, and I think he may have commanded the ship at one point, but I could be wrong. Seeing Worf in other places besides tactical isn't that hard to believe.

However, I highly doubt that was the thought process. When doing a show, making sense as far as organization goes isn't all that important. In the end, most of the tasks in a standard episode have to be done with Picard, Riker, Troi, Data, Geordi, Dr. Crusher, Worf and a couple guest stars. That is probably why they gave Wesley the keys to the ship. He was a regular character who didn't have much to do, so they gave him a job so they didn't need guest stars.

Yeah, the Enterprise has a thousand people on it, but the show can't afford to assemble a full crew. Because of this, the senior staff on Star Trek do a lot more than their Navy counterparts. I'm not dissing the Navy in any sense, but from what my Dad told me, most of the general workings of the ship would be done by non-coms while the officers would run the big picture stuff and make sure that everything is being done efficiently. But that doesn't work on TV, which is why you see the helmsman repairing the sensors and see the person in charge of firing the weapons, commanding a security detail.

Secondly, as far as O'Brien's rank goes. My Dad, who was in the Navy, thinks that O'Brien is probably comparable to a Warrent Officer. Which is, a Non-Com who is almost on the level of a Comissioned Officer. They are appointed to this rank if they show extraordinary expereince in a field that rivals or goes beyond that of the general officer. I'm not sure where they fit into the command structure, but it seems to make a lot more sense than being a chief petty officer, which was the rank directly above my Dad and he wasn't in charge of anything or close to being in charge of anything.
 
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