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Is the Mirror Universe bound to the Prime Universe in a unique way?

SG-17

Commodore
Commodore
I recently went back and watched all of the Mirror Universe episodes of the various series and while its clear that the concept was never intended to be anything other than a peek at a darker path that could have been taken it does still make me think.

Is the Mirror Universe a true parallel reality or is it some kind of parasite dimension to the Prime Universe? By that I mean does it really make sense that people, ships, and locations would be largely the same in both universes despite their radically different history? It seems that the Mirror Universe is bound to the Prime Universe, that what exists in the Prime Universe must also exist in the Mirror Universe (but not necessarily vice-versa). Obviously this is a storytelling convention, but that hasn't stopped Trek fans from trying to assign rational explanations to things before.
 
This is my opinion about the ‘Mirror’ universe, which is obviously not endorsed by the people currently in charge of Star Trek.

When you watch the original TOS episode, it very much appears like the Halkans are setting Kirk and his crew up, and that they have more going on than they’re letting on. The Halkan leader expressly challenges Kirk about the possibility that the Federation's altruistic intentions may change over time. Then all of a sudden there’s a problem with the transporter, and Kirk’s landing party ends up in this savage universe where everyone has an evil opposite, even though this type of situation makes no logical sense, since if the Mirror universe existed for centuries before, then there’s no way anyone would have duplicates by then because the universes would have diverged so drastically over time.

So the Halkans just created this illusion to teach Kirk and his crew a lesson, even going so far as to create illusions of evil Kirk and evil landing party for Spock’s benefit.

However...some writers on Deep Space Nine decided that the Mirror universe was an actual thing, and the rest is history.
 
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I would accept both if a) it had been revealed that the Halkans had done just that in the episode, and b) there was some post-resolution musing about "they must have got ideas about what evil us would be like from somewhere/who knows what lurks below our outward veneer of civilization, we may have got a glimpse of the truth/maybe there really is such a universe where we are like that, somewhere out there..."

That way both explanations coexist. Plus, we don't have to buy all the details of the TOS MU as far as characterizations of individuals go.
 
Here’s the thing, though: having it remain ambiguous about whether there was really an evil mirror universe, or that it was just an illusion produced by the Halkans (who were really the variable in this situation), is what makes the episode stand out all the more. Sometimes it isn’t necessary to spoon-feed your audience, and it allows said audience to interpret the events of the episode for themselves. It’s really no different than how Section 31 was originally introduced in DS9 - was it an actual real organization, or was Sloane just fucking with people’s heads? Once it was established that it was a real thing, its mystery and luster went away.
 
I'm all for subtlety, but there's absolutely nothing in "Mirror, Mirror" that suggests the Halkans have mind-bending superpowers. It's on the level of saying everything in "The Galileo Seven" is an illusion cast by Commissioner Ferris.
 
Is the Mirror Universe a true parallel reality or is it some kind of parasite dimension to the Prime Universe? By that I mean does it really make sense that people, ships, and locations would be largely the same in both universes despite their radically different history?

Of course it doesn't make sense, but it's true of various alternate timelines we've seen in Trek. The Kelvin Timeline diverges massively in 2233, yet the same bunch of people wind up serving together on the Enterprise a decade too early. The "Yesteryear" timeline has no Spock, yet the Enterprise somehow survived all those crises that Spock was pivotal to solving and got assigned to the exact same Guardian mission at the exact same time. The "Yesterday's Enterprise" timeline had nearly all the same crew together on a ship of the same design, even though the Galaxy class was designed as a peacetime explorer vessel and made no sense as the flagship of a war fleet, not without massive changes that the FX team didn't have the budget to show. And some of the "Parallels" timelines had major divergences from Prime yet still had essentially the same crew on the same ship. So it's hardly unique to the Mirror Universe.

You pretty much have to fall back on what Lex Luthor said in the Arrowverse's Crisis on Infinite Earths recently: "The multiverse has a way of aligning fates." It's a contrived trope, but it's dramatically necessary because we want to see stories about the characters we know interacting with each other, not totally different people we've never met.


The idea of the MU being a Halkan illusion is a novel interpretation I've never heard before in more than 45 years of Trek fandom. It's an interesting thought. But it's definitely not what the writers had in mind, given that the Halkans didn't even exist in Jerome Bixby's original outline. Captain Kirk is transposed alone when a "warpstorm" strikes during his beam-up from a routine mission to Rigel IV, and he finds himself in a Federation that's been invaded by an enemy called the Tharn, with whom they're at peace in the main reality. Kirk eventually finds that the Federation is weaker in that universe because it never invented phasers. Plus he's married. (The "evil alternates" idea was cribbed from Ellison's original "City on the Edge" script, where we saw that the Edith-lives timeline replaced the Enterprise with a pirate ship.)

I also think it's out of character for the Halkans. As pure pacifists, they wouldn't approve of forcing an illusion into someone's mind any more than they'd approve of using physical force against them. They would respect the Federation's right to make its own decisions, even ones they disapproved of.

And there were MU sequels treating it as "an actual thing" long before DS9: "Crossover." DC Comics did the memorable Mirror Universe Saga in '84-'85, and Diane Duane's TNG novel Dark Mirror came out about 6 months before "Crossover."
 
There are no shortage of superbeings (Q, Organians, Metron, Douwd?) who have a vested interest in the state of the galaxy and might go out of their way to create an alternate universe for just a few centuries that have analogues to most of the people.

The mirror universe and the regular universe (for lack of a better term) are linked via the interphase from the Tholians in In a Mirror, Darkly/The Tholian Web, and this may have been the "creation point" of this universe (the differences seem to go back to the time of Shakespeare, if not ancient Rome). The transporter interference in all chronologically subsequent appearances may be linked to the Tholian incident, which might link it to the TCW in some way, although I can't imagine any of the temporal powers having multiversal creation capability.
 
I too never felt that the Halkans had illusory powers and just accepted what I saw on screen as rote, until the Kelvin films started making me wonder about the true nature of fictitious parallel universes (an oxymoron, I know) and the logic of having the same exact people existing or not existing under the circumstances. I then happened to watch Mirror Mirror and really paid attention to the dialogue between the Halkan leader and Kirk, and what I interpreted the real point of the episode to be. Was it just ‘Enterprise crew meets their evil twins?” Or was it, “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions?” (Or some other similar message.) I get that it wasn’t the original writer’s intent, but that doesn’t mean that someone couldn’t interpret a story in a different way than what its creator envisioned (i.e. that the story is actually an allegory that the Federation will someday become corrupt and fascistic, not that there was a parallel universe existing somewhere where this already happened.)

I also think it's out of character for the Halkans. As pure pacifists, they wouldn't approve of forcing an illusion into someone's mind any more than they'd approve of using physical force against them. They would respect the Federation's right to make its own decisions, even ones they disapproved of.

Well, the Organians pretty much did that: purely pacifistic and illusory aliens who used their heretofore unknown powers to stop a war between the Federation and the Klingons forcibly and without their consent. The Halkans wouldn't have had to be any different were the circumstances similar.

And there were MU sequels treating it as "an actual thing" long before DS9: "Crossover." DC Comics did the memorable Mirror Universe Saga in '84-'85, and Diane Duane's TNG novel Dark Mirror came out about 6 months before "Crossover."

Both of which, in my opinion, were far superior stories than what we got in DS9.
 
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Of course it doesn't make sense, but it's true of various alternate timelines we've seen in Trek. The Kelvin Timeline diverges massively in 2233, yet the same bunch of people wind up serving together on the Enterprise a decade too early. The "Yesteryear" timeline has no Spock, yet the Enterprise somehow survived all those crises that Spock was pivotal to solving and got assigned to the exact same Guardian mission at the exact same time. The "Yesterday's Enterprise" timeline had nearly all the same crew together on a ship of the same design, even though the Galaxy class was designed as a peacetime explorer vessel and made no sense as the flagship of a war fleet, not without massive changes that the FX team didn't have the budget to show. And some of the "Parallels" timelines had major divergences from Prime yet still had essentially the same crew on the same ship. So it's hardly unique to the Mirror Universe.
I think that the big differences between what we saw in Yesteryear/Yesterday's Enterprise/Parallels/Kelvinverse is that they all (with the exception of Parallels) diverged from the Prime timeline relatively close to the time period of the shows and dealt with time travel from the Prime timeline creating them. Parallels stands out as it deals with actual parallel universes, but we are only shown ones that are similar to the Prime universe (other science fiction series work on a basis of "proximity" with parallel realities, where the "closer" a reality is to the "Prime" setting "physically" the smaller the differences are, I wonder how it works in Trek).

The Mirror Universe differs drastically in that the apparent point of divergence was thousands of years ago.


That begs the question though, was it only human history that diverged and thus altered galactic history? Is it only the Terrans who were materially different from their Prime counterparts (being photosensitive and culturally barbaric) prior to Mirror First Contact?

The Mirror Universe is a permanent part of Star Trek, I'd honestly like a further canon exploration of it and its history.
 
I always like to imagine every universe has its own mirror universe in which the morality is inverted and who does/doesn't have a goatee is switched. Maybe that doesn't make sense, but try to poke logic holes in the Mirror Universe and you quickly end up with quite the leaky boat indeed.
 
Parallels stands out as it deals with actual parallel universes, but we are only shown ones that are similar to the Prime universe (other science fiction series work on a basis of "proximity" with parallel realities, where the "closer" a reality is to the "Prime" setting "physically" the smaller the differences are, I wonder how it works in Trek).

Well, Worf at first jumps to parallel universes that seem very close to his original universe, but with each jump the differences with his original universe seem to increase. That would suggest that there is a certain kind of "ordering" to them, too, as Worf seems to arrive in increasingly "remote" realities. (Beginning with something minute like a different birthday cake, progressing by finding out he didn't win first prize/ didn't go at all / is in a relationship with Deanna / has children with her / ends up in a reality where Picard never was freed from the Borg, and communicates with one in which the Borg defeated the Federation outright).

(Of course the real reason was dramatic. Microbrain might have noticed within seconds something was seriously wrong, had he jumped to that "Borg defeats Federation" universe in his very first jump. )
 
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Well, the Organians pretty much did that: purely pacifistic and illusory aliens who used their heretofore unknown powers to stop a war between the Federation and the Klingons forcibly and without their consent. The Halkans wouldn't have had to be any different were the circumstances similar.

But the Organians weren't really pacifists, they just wanted to be left alone. They found the presence of corporeal beings intolerable, so they forced the peace in order to get the noisy kids off their lawn.


I think that the big differences between what we saw in Yesteryear/Yesterday's Enterprise/Parallels/Kelvinverse is that they all (with the exception of Parallels) diverged from the Prime timeline relatively close to the time period of the shows and dealt with time travel from the Prime timeline creating them.

But they all diverged decades earlier, which is enough to make it unlikely that the same people would end up on the same ship at the same time, especially if their life circumstances were very different.


Parallels stands out as it deals with actual parallel universes

A meaningless distinction. Fiction uses "parallel universe," "alternate timeline," and other such terms interchangeably, and from a physics standpoint, they're all just alternative quantum measurement histories, superposed solutions to the Schroedinger equation of the universe, with no meaningful physical difference between one created by time travel and one arising through a spontaneous branching. (Indeed, strictly speaking, alternate quantum timelines can only be created by quantum-scale events, not by macroscopic events like time travelers' actions, so it's more likely that any parallel timeline resulting from time travel was one that spontaneously branched off just before the time travelers arrived, giving them the opportunity to make it happen differently.)

If anything were actually, literally a separate universe, rather than an alternate history of our universe, then it wouldn't have Earth or humans or Starfleet or anything we recognize. It would just be a different physical place with a completely separate evolution, with different worlds and species and history altogether. You wouldn't find a goateed copy of yourself or an Earth where Hitler won any more than you'd find a duplicate Manhattan Island or Nile River on a planet of Alpha Centauri. It's just a separate place, not a duplicate of the place we come from. Anything that has Earth and humans and recognizable individuals in it can only be an alternate history, no matter what terminology the story uses.

And don't give me the "Well, there's an infinite number of universes so some of them just coincidentally happen to match ours" argument, like they do in the IDW Kelvin comics. That's an abuse of the concept of infinity. If there is an infinite number of universes, then the probability of interacting with one that coincidentally duplicates ours is the reciprocal of infinity, which is zero. It would take an infinite amount of time to find one and thus it would never happen.


The Mirror Universe differs drastically in that the apparent point of divergence was thousands of years ago.

I'm not convinced of that. Dictatorial regimes aren't above rewriting their history to fit state ideology. It's possible the divergence point was more recent but the Empire rewrote its history and literature to make it seem like the divergence was further back.

As for the photosensitivity thing, that makes no sense, since we saw no sign of it in "Mirror, Mirror" or DS9. So it must only apply to a certain percentage of the Terran Empire population, maybe the result of a botched eugenics experiment. Georgiou's claim that it applied to all Mirror humans would just be one more bit of state-approved revisionism.


That begs the question though, was it only human history that diverged and thus altered galactic history? Is it only the Terrans who were materially different from their Prime counterparts (being photosensitive and culturally barbaric) prior to Mirror First Contact?

Clearly yes. Every change we've seen in other species can be attributed to their conquest by or war against the Terran Empire. Vulcans are still logical, just more ruthless because they've had to be to survive. Other races are much the same except in the way their history has played out differently under Terran influence, for instance, Bajor being conquered by the Empire first and allying with Cardassia against it.


I always like to imagine every universe has its own mirror universe in which the morality is inverted and who does/doesn't have a goatee is switched.

Again, the MU was never supposed to be a world where everyone's morality was inverted -- the Halkans were the same, Spock was ultimately the same underneath, etc. The title "Mirror, Mirror" doesn't refer to simple reversal -- it's from "Snow White," the incantation to the magic mirror that reveals the unvarnished truth. The point wasn't "These are our complete opposites," it was "their savagery is inside us too."
 
That begs the question though, was it only human history that diverged and thus altered galactic history? Is it only the Terrans who were materially different from their Prime counterparts (being photosensitive and culturally barbaric) prior to Mirror First Contact?

There’s suppose to be a Romulan Republic in the mirror universe instead of a Romulan Star Empire. They never been seen on screen though, although I never heard of there ever being a neutral zone being created in that universe. Seems they've kept to themselves without going to war with the Terran Empire.

The Xindi also exist in the mirror universe, according to the “In a Mirror, Darkly” open. However, the circumstances must be quite different. The Prime Timeline had the Xindi attack Earth based on information that Earth would attack them 400 years into the future. There doesn’t seem to be any acknowledgement of a Temporal Cold War or any time travel though in the mirror universe, and Earth is supposedly already destroyed between the TOS mirror universe and DS9 mirror universe episodes before the Xindi are to be supposed to be attacked. So, it would be a mystery as to why the Xindi superweapon was built in the mirror universe context, and why some of the Xindi would work with the Terran Empire in this universe, considered how other species are perceived by the Terran Empire.

Orion women also serve openly in the Terran Empire in the mirror universe, according to IAMD. The only other time this is seen is in the first Kelvinverse movie. It's never happened in the Prime Universe.
 
The mirror universe and the regular universe (for lack of a better term) are linked via the interphase from the Tholians in In a Mirror, Darkly/The Tholian Web, and this may have been the "creation point" of this universe (the differences seem to go back to the time of Shakespeare, if not ancient Rome).

I've always felt that a key event in the mirror universe was George Washington accepts becoming King of America instead of rejecting the idea, and rules as an absolute monarch, which also means that term limits never become a thing. And by having a monarchy that ends up having an imperialist foreign policy based on conquest, all subsequent America wars have a completely different context (note there may not actually be an America in the mirror universe, more like a United States of Terra).

I base it off of the fact that the moon landing in the IAMD intro used a Terran Empire flag instead of an American flag.
 
I recently went back and watched all of the Mirror Universe episodes of the various series and while its clear that the concept was never intended to be anything other than a peek at a darker path that could have been taken it does still make me think.

Is the Mirror Universe a true parallel reality or is it some kind of parasite dimension to the Prime Universe? By that I mean does it really make sense that people, ships, and locations would be largely the same in both universes despite their radically different history? It seems that the Mirror Universe is bound to the Prime Universe, that what exists in the Prime Universe must also exist in the Mirror Universe (but not necessarily vice-versa). Obviously this is a storytelling convention, but that hasn't stopped Trek fans from trying to assign rational explanations to things before.
That's true of all universes in Trek: In the "Yesterday's Enterprise" timeline and prime, the Enterprise-D was brought down by a Klingon bird of prey causing a coolant leak and warp core breach just 4 or so years apart from Generations where the same happened; either Kirk or Spock sacrificed themselves repairing the warp core during a conflict with Khan 15 years apart in Into Darkness and Wrath of Khan; Seven of Nine replaces Kes verbatim in another timeline helping Tuvok decipher the temporal frequency of a croniton torpedo in a Jeffries Tube in "Before and After" and "Year of Hell". No matter how messed up the timeline, the same people meet in the same places at roughly the same times. It makes zero real sense, but Trek is fiction so it's the "currents of time" Spock spoke of in "City on the Edge of Forever" (or the timeline healing itself, as was scripted but cut from ST'09)

I loved the Shatnerverse novel Preserver, which postulated that the Mirror Universe was the control universe and Prime was a Preserver experiment where they'd tampered throughout history to make "our" universe what it was.
 
I loved the Shatnerverse novel Preserver, which postulated that the Mirror Universe was the control universe and Prime was a Preserver experiment where they'd tampered throughout history to make "our" universe what it was.

Whereas I hate the idea of elevating the Preservers to that kind of godlike level. There's not a shred of evidence in "The Paradise Syndrome" to indicate they were that much more advanced than the Federation. Okay, their repulsor beam was a lot more powerful than a starship's tractor beam, but it was a ground installation so naturally it could draw on more power.

I think the Shatnerverse also fell prey to the common mistake of confusing the Preservers with the first humanoids from "The Chase" even though they existed 4 billion years apart and did totally different things and had nothing in common besides being handwaves for humanoid aliens.
 
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