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Is Technology Inevitable?

Stiletto

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
I am re-reading the Wheel Of Time series by Robert Jordan and it reminded me about a problem I have with Fantasy worlds. In this book, the villiage that the main characters come from has been basically the same for 3000 years, and other larger cities they visit haven't changed in several thousand. I have a problem with that. Ever since the industrial revolution began early last century, technology has grown by leaps and bounds, hell the Victorian age wasn't that long ago, shouldn't these fantasy worlds have evolved technology wise as well?

Is technology inevitable?

P.S. yes, I know it is just a work of the author's mind and he/she can make the story take place at whatever time the author wants.

Thoughts?
 
I am re-reading the Wheel Of Time series by Robert Jordan and it reminded me about a problem I have with Fantasy worlds. In this book, the villiage that the main characters come from has been basically the same for 3000 years, and other larger cities they visit haven't changed in several thousand. I have a problem with that. Ever since the industrial revolution began early last century, technology has grown by leaps and bounds, hell the Victorian age wasn't that long ago, shouldn't these fantasy worlds have evolved technology wise as well?

Is technology inevitable?

P.S. yes, I know it is just a work of the author's mind and he/she can make the story take place at whatever time the author wants.

Thoughts?


It's one of the problems I have with the Star Wars Universe as a whole. The Knights of the Old Republic technology seems the same as the "current" Star Wars technology.

I think technology develops--but, I guess it's a question of what do you consider technology.

There wasn't much we would consider in technological development from the Roman times to the Victorian Age, but there was a LOT of development in terms of mathematics, farming, etc.

So, I would say development is inevitable. A society developmentally frozen for 3000 years is totally unbelievable to me.
 
It depends on the circumstances of the civilization. An industrial revolution isn't something that happens automatically after a certain length of time; it depends on the needs and circumstances of the society at that particular point. The technological level of Western Europe at the time the Industrial Revolution began had been reached by China over seven centuries earlier. But China had no need for a revolutionary change in its way of doing things. It was already the most prosperous and powerful nation in the world, and all its needs were met internally, so it had no incentive for radical progress. By contrast, Western Europe was relatively impoverished and less able to support its population, so it was more motivated to seek out the riches of Asia as well as seeking overseas farmland it could colonize, and that drove advances in transportation technology such as the steam engine. And the need to compete with China's textile and ceramic industries drove the development of the factory system. And all this was made possible by the ample coal deposits that were available in England and Europe. And a society without a rigid class division between the people with the capital and the people who did the labor and tool-building also made innovation more feasible than in more stratified societies. (Although here the comparison is more with Ionian Greece, which was practically at a pre-industrial level 2000 years ago and might've had an industrial revolution if the social circumstances hadn't stifled pragmatic science.)

So it took a combination of factors to spark an industrial revolution: the right location, the right resources, the right social structure, the right economic incentives. So it wasn't just about being able to make the breakthrough, but having the need to make it, the motivation to change. Technological evolution, like biological evolution, follows a pattern of punctuated equilibrium: rather than advancing at a constant rate, it stays fairly level most of the time, but goes into a state of rapid innovation when circumstances compel the development of new adaptations. After all, if you're already adapted to your environment, if your way of living meets all your needs, there's no motivation to change. It's only when there's some mismatch between your lifestyle and your needs that the incentive to innovate arises.

This is hard for us to see because we've lived all our lives in a time of constant and rapid progress. But over the grand sweep of human history and prehistory, that's the exception to the rule. Greece could've industrialized two millennia ago, but they didn't have the social foundations for it. China could've industrialized nearly one millennium ago, but they didn't have the need for sudden, rapid progress.

So there's nothing implausible about a fantasy world's society remaining at a fairly steady level or progressing only slowly for thousands of years. Indeed, magic would probably fulfill many of the needs that higher technology meets, rendering it unnecessary for the society to develop higher technology.

But Professor Zoom makes an excellent point. There are many determiners of progress. Even without an incentive for rapid technological development, there are still changes and innovations in abstract knowledge, practical techniques, economics, art and literature, social dynamics, and so forth. A culture is a living, changing thing. So for a society to remain exactly the same in every respect for thousands of years is totally unbelievable.
 
So, I would say development is inevitable. A society developmentally frozen for 3000 years is totally unbelievable to me.
Havent there been societies that existed at a Stone Age level of technology for longer than that?
 
So, I would say development is inevitable. A society developmentally frozen for 3000 years is totally unbelievable to me.
Havent there been societies that existed at a Stone Age level of technology for longer than that?

I believe they were/are small and didn't encounter many other cultures.

And again, there's development and then there's technology in the sense that we understand it. I'm not saying every society will develop steam engines over time, but they will change and learn over several thousand years, especially if they are interacting with other groups.
 
Havent there been societies that existed at a Stone Age level of technology for longer than that?

Early human hunter-gatherer bands subsisted with that lifestyle for hundreds of thousands of years, at a much slower rate of technological innovation than came later, partly because of the isolation that Zoom mentions and partly because of lack of need. As I said, change doesn't happen automatically; it comes when there's a combination of the need and opportunity for it. Our development of new forms of subsistence starting around 14,000 years ago was a response to climate shifts that made gathering and hunting less viable and prompted the development of alternatives like horticulture, herding, fishing, and eventually agriculture.

But as Zoom says, just because their material technology advanced slowly, that doesn't mean they underwent no societal change. Even relatively small, isolated communities are capable of change in their customs, attitudes, values, etc. -- it's pretty universal for the younger generation to question the assumptions of their predecessors. Also, keep in mind that the reason we call it "the Stone Age" isn't because stone tools were all they had, but because they're all that survives from that era, and it's folly to assume that such an incomplete sample of their technology provides a comprehensive picture of their cultures. We have little way of knowing at what pace their use of textiles, dyes, woodcarving, or other biodegradable technologies might have advanced.
 
At this point, it might be relevant to plug Jared Diamond's book 'Guns, Germs, and Steel', as it gives a pretty thorough breakdown on these very issues, and, I feel should be a primer for anyone interested in true worldbuilding, as it gives a lot of insight and ideas as to why real-life civilizations 'worked' in some milieus but not others, and how a lot of SF civilizations simply don't make sense (technologically advanced H/G societies, for example) due to too many contradictions in their makeup.

Granted, Diamond's book is a non-fiction historical text, but I think many of its principles would apply to this and many other discussions on societies in fiction.... a very entertaining read (and a fascinating NatGeo special if you don't have the patience for that.
 
Interesting question, although I have to admit I came into this thread thinking the question was "will advanced technology that we see in television, novels, and films inevitably become reality?"
 
think about game consoles, they kept improving and improving on graphics, power capabilities ect. to what we have now, we may get one more new console cycle, but we have reached a point to where graphics and capabilities are where they can't easily be outdone, so advancement becomes pointless, and only leaves variation
 
^no, that's only part of the cycle. usually hardware pushes the capability of software for a while, then software pushes the capacity of hardware. It's a repeating cycle. Trust me, ten years from now today's consoles will be primitive by comparison.
 
^short of holodeck tech I doubt it, the 10 year part at least, we're reaching the limitations of what we can do with the current console format itself
 
Advancements in technology come mostly from a necessity and a desire. In a world where magic can do anything you want it to do, there's no real drive to develop technology.

That said, I do hate the vast majority of fantasy (and sci-fi) writing for the reasons you listed. Everything is stagnant for ridiculous amounts of time, and/or everything is exactly the same across the entire planet. In most sci-fi, for instance, Earth is the only planet to have more than one environment let alone more than one notable culture. Drives me barmy.
 
Just Wheel of Time is a bad example, I feel, because there is a technological progress in them. And the reason is just "need" (and the "Age of Legends" was absolutely a technological society. And because of the series cyclical time, I guess it will be again)

I would think that worlds that have magic can rely less on technology for their needs, therefore there's a lot slower progress beyond the basic stuff.

Another series where need is the driving force behind a technological shift is the Pern-series.
 
I feel it's worth pointing out that using "technology" to mean only modern, advanced technology is erroneous and ethnocentric. The word "technology" comes from the Greek roots for "skill" and "word." It literally means the expression of skill or art. Technology is the practical application of knowledge and skill in order to gain influence over one's environment, and more importantly the preservation and dissemination of that knowledge and skill. The knowledge of how to make fire, how to make string, how to domesticate and train animals, how to read the stars and know from them when to migrate or when to plant -- these are all technology.
 
I am re-reading the Wheel Of Time series by Robert Jordan and it reminded me about a problem I have with Fantasy worlds. In this book, the villiage that the main characters come from has been basically the same for 3000 years, and other larger cities they visit haven't changed in several thousand. I have a problem with that. Ever since the industrial revolution began early last century, technology has grown by leaps and bounds, hell the Victorian age wasn't that long ago, shouldn't these fantasy worlds have evolved technology wise as well?

Is technology inevitable?

P.S. yes, I know it is just a work of the author's mind and he/she can make the story take place at whatever time the author wants.

Thoughts?

I think that's one of the points of Dollhouse, they defeat Rossum but the technology escapes anyway.
I don't think it's necessarily so, China was an astoundingly advanced civilisation giving us pasta, playing cards, gunpowder etc but got left behind by Europe in the C19th. Islamic society is percieved a backward now yet kept the flame of knowledge alive whilst Europe wallowed in the Dark Ages. The Incas/Mayans were hugely advanced yet their civilisation collapses even before Cortez arrived. Think of WW2, Nazi Germany streaks ahead of the allies in terms of jets, rockets, subs, tanks etc but hugely behind them in terms of radar, cryptography, atomic fission etc. It's perfectly plausible any civilisation could be good at some aspects but weak in the others
 
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