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Is Star Trek the feng shui of sci fi?

Rÿcher

Fleet Captain
just right, nice curves, nice lines, calming colors, non-offensive.

I'v always kinda been waiting for the moment when Star Trek offends me by taking a stance against something I don't believe in or something. Except for a few violations of canon, it hasn't.

Relationships with an android - big deal. A woman got lonely and Data's as human as the rest of us.

Same-sex relationships. Leftist Trekkie. For or against same-sex relationships? For!

Stay out of other people's affairs and business? Yes.

Fight when threatened? Totally
 
I find A Private Little War a little bit offensive. I'm supposed to believe that the best course of action was to make an artificial arms race between primitive cultures? Sorry Gene, I don't buy it.

Other than that I would probably agree with you.
 
"Who Watches the Watchers" was pretty bad, too--I mean, Picard sure took a broad brush to religion there, instead of just dealing with the one situation at hand.
 
Picard is right though. Look around you, and tell me; how much of the deaths, hate, bigotry, abuse and pain would not exist; if there was no religion.

Like John Adams founding father of the USA said, "It would truly be an ideal world, if there were no religion in it."
 
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I really hate to turn this into another anti-religion thread (like we need another one of those, right?) but without religion, we wouldn't have books and shit telling us to hate the things we hate.
 
Picard is right though. Look around you, and tell me; how much of the deaths, hate, bigotry, abuse and pain would not exist; if there was no religion.

If we didn't have religion, humans would just find some other excuse for hatred, bigotry, etc., etc.

I really hate to turn this into another anti-religion thread (like we need another one of those, right?) but without religion, we wouldn't have books and shit telling us to hate the things we hate.

Don't worry...people would find another way to excuse their own selfish desires. The power of the state and/or political ideology would certainly be one, and one that we've seen before. Some wouldn't even disguise their power grabs--they'd just do it brazenly. Getting rid of religion would do absolutely nothing to change the very basic human problem that we face; all you'd do is change where the dividing lines fall. They'd still be there...just in different places.
 
Picard is right though. Look around you, and tell me; how much of the deaths, hate, bigotry, abuse and pain would not exist; if there was no religion.

If we didn't have religion, humans would just find some other excuse for hatred, bigotry, etc., etc.

I really hate to turn this into another anti-religion thread (like we need another one of those, right?) but without religion, we wouldn't have books and shit telling us to hate the things we hate.

Don't worry...people would find another way to excuse their own selfish desires. The power of the state and/or political ideology would certainly be one, and one that we've seen before. Some wouldn't even disguise their power grabs--they'd just do it brazenly. Getting rid of religion would do absolutely nothing to change the very basic human problem that we face; all you'd do is change where the dividing lines fall. They'd still be there...just in different places.

Power grabs? Selfish desires?

That's a minor elite.

I'm talking about the people in the street, the masses who are controlled by a select few evil people because they use "god said so". If there was no religion; if those masses could think for themselves, if they didn't bother with the completely irrational need to please some unseen old guy with a beard, would they hate? Would they stupidly cling to considering homosexuals as sick and evil, if there's no priest claiming to know what the Old Guy wants to say so? If there's no words in a book being claimed to come from the Bearded Guy that can be twisted to be that? If there was no Bearded Guy to be afraid of to shut down your intellect, and no one to tell you, don't think, just do as I say 3,000 year old words mean? If there was Bearded Guy would people so easily defy science and cling to utterly ridiculous and irrational concepts? Could they really be manipulated so easily?

I don't think so. Most perpetuated hates and bigotry come because someone says they should be hated and discriminated against; and people accept that someone because he exudes an air of authority. No Bearded Guy, no authority.
 
That elite I described, however, is very likely to command the masses and convince them to follow them like sheep--especially when hanging the threat over them of dragging them out of their houses in the middle of the night for torture should they slip up.

Perhaps this PARTICULAR group or that one might get off easier, but others could just as easily be targeted, depending on what kind of regime is in power. Xenophobic regime? Foreign nationals would have to fear. Eugenics-obsessed regime? The disabled and those with any other characteristics considered undesirable would have to fear. Extremist capitalistic society? You sure wouldn't want to be out of a job there. And that's not even bringing up worship of the government seen in societies like North Korea or Communist regimes.

That minority that is capable of power grabs will indeed find a way to make it hell for the majority, with or without religion as an excuse.
 
I really hate to turn this into another anti-religion thread (like we need another one of those, right?) but without religion, we wouldn't have books and shit telling us to hate the things we hate.

Nor would we have much of the most beautiful art and music in the world.
 
That elite I described, however, is very likely to command the masses and convince them to follow them like sheep--especially when hanging the threat over them of dragging them out of their houses in the middle of the night for torture should they slip up.

Perhaps this PARTICULAR group or that one might get off easier, but others could just as easily be targeted, depending on what kind of regime is in power. Xenophobic regime? Foreign nationals would have to fear. Eugenics-obsessed regime? The disabled and those with any other characteristics considered undesirable would have to fear. Extremist capitalistic society? You sure wouldn't want to be out of a job there. And that's not even bringing up worship of the government seen in societies like North Korea or Communist regimes.

That minority that is capable of power grabs will indeed find a way to make it hell for the majority, with or without religion as an excuse.

That's nice, except, AGAIN that regimes aren't really the problem, or but a small one. The problem in our world, is that we don't just have a few regimes run by a minority that's bad to its own people, we're dealing with whole slews of people hating, hurting, killing, or wanting to kill, and blowing things and themselves up; because they think the Bearded Guy up in the sky told them to. No Bearded Guy, those people have no reason to do so.

I really hate to turn this into another anti-religion thread (like we need another one of those, right?) but without religion, we wouldn't have books and shit telling us to hate the things we hate.

Nor would we have much of the most beautiful art and music in the world.

Uh... which art and music is created by or for religion that are a. beautiful, let alone most beautiful, b. wouldn't have been replaced with equally beautiful non-religious paintings and c. is more important that all the suffering its caused?
 
That elite I described, however, is very likely to command the masses and convince them to follow them like sheep--especially when hanging the threat over them of dragging them out of their houses in the middle of the night for torture should they slip up.

Perhaps this PARTICULAR group or that one might get off easier, but others could just as easily be targeted, depending on what kind of regime is in power. Xenophobic regime? Foreign nationals would have to fear. Eugenics-obsessed regime? The disabled and those with any other characteristics considered undesirable would have to fear. Extremist capitalistic society? You sure wouldn't want to be out of a job there. And that's not even bringing up worship of the government seen in societies like North Korea or Communist regimes.

That minority that is capable of power grabs will indeed find a way to make it hell for the majority, with or without religion as an excuse.

That's nice, except, AGAIN that regimes aren't really the problem, or but a small one. The problem in our world, is that we don't just have a few regimes run by a minority that's bad to its own people, we're dealing with whole slews of people hating, hurting, killing, or wanting to kill, and blowing things and themselves up; because they think the Bearded Guy up in the sky told them to. No Bearded Guy, those people have no reason to do so.

Are you familiar with the Milgram and Stanford Experiments? If so, you can see just from that what a drastic effect even the most temporary human authority can have. The Milgram Experiment in particular is instructive to this case--notice how the man's simply being a doctor caused subjects to obey to the point of giving what would have been lethal shocks to the person on the other end...even when told that person had a heart condition.

Those people were NOT told to do so "because God wanted them to" or anything of that nature. They did it simply because a man in a white coat said so. If that's all it took to get these otherwise ordinary people to commit what would've been murder had someone actually been hooked up to those electrodes, then a government regime (and those who represent it) could easily pull that off with nothing but earthly positional authority. The numbers as to how many refused Milgram's orders are quite dismal indeed.

I think perhaps many people find this quite disturbing to have to admit to. It's easy to have a scapegoat--to say that if religion were gone, all the ills of the world would be fixed. It's a lot more disturbing to face the truth about human nature and to realize that the problem is internal to each and every one of us, NOT imposed from the outside. Not to mention that accepting that the problem is internal places much more responsibility on us as individuals to face that aspect of ourselves and to take responsibility for our actions--whereas simply blaming one group for all the world's ills is a cop-out...it means the person in question need not consider their own contributions to the problem.
 
That elite I described, however, is very likely to command the masses and convince them to follow them like sheep--especially when hanging the threat over them of dragging them out of their houses in the middle of the night for torture should they slip up.

Perhaps this PARTICULAR group or that one might get off easier, but others could just as easily be targeted, depending on what kind of regime is in power. Xenophobic regime? Foreign nationals would have to fear. Eugenics-obsessed regime? The disabled and those with any other characteristics considered undesirable would have to fear. Extremist capitalistic society? You sure wouldn't want to be out of a job there. And that's not even bringing up worship of the government seen in societies like North Korea or Communist regimes.

That minority that is capable of power grabs will indeed find a way to make it hell for the majority, with or without religion as an excuse.

That's nice, except, AGAIN that regimes aren't really the problem, or but a small one. The problem in our world, is that we don't just have a few regimes run by a minority that's bad to its own people, we're dealing with whole slews of people hating, hurting, killing, or wanting to kill, and blowing things and themselves up; because they think the Bearded Guy up in the sky told them to. No Bearded Guy, those people have no reason to do so.

Are you familiar with the Milgram and Stanford Experiments? If so, you can see just from that what a drastic effect even the most temporary human authority can have. The Milgram Experiment in particular is instructive to this case--notice how the man's simply being a doctor caused subjects to obey to the point of giving what would have been lethal shocks to the person on the other end...even when told that person had a heart condition.

Those people were NOT told to do so "because God wanted them to" or anything of that nature. They did it simply because a man in a white coat said so. If that's all it took to get these otherwise ordinary people to commit what would've been murder had someone actually been hooked up to those electrodes, then a government regime (and those who represent it) could easily pull that off with nothing but earthly positional authority. The numbers as to how many refused Milgram's orders are quite dismal indeed.

I think perhaps many people find this quite disturbing to have to admit to. It's easy to have a scapegoat--to say that if religion were gone, all the ills of the world would be fixed. It's a lot more disturbing to face the truth about human nature and to realize that the problem is internal to each and every one of us, NOT imposed from the outside. Not to mention that accepting that the problem is internal places much more responsibility on us as individuals to face that aspect of ourselves and to take responsibility for our actions--whereas simply blaming one group for all the world's ills is a cop-out...it means the person in question need not consider their own contributions to the problem.

Hmm, let's see, my contributions... Am I a bigot? Nope. Do I hate anyone irrationally? Or do I hate anyone at all even? Nope. Do I consider any gender, skin-color, sexuality or something else inferior to others? Nope.

Hmm, must not be contributing much, if anything at all really.

Anyway, sad thing is, those experiments never wrote down religious affiliations of the 50% that refused and the 50% that went and did it. But I'm willing to make a sizable bet, that every single last atheist in there, refused, and every single last man or woman that agreed was religious and very possibly of the one-god religions.

It's because only in the one-god religions, that man's existence on this world is reduced to a meaningless exercise to get in the heaven where a person's real life can get started. Only there, is there an authority so above men and this plane of existence, that men are no more than sinners that are but pawns, weak pathetic things that exist solely to please and praise god in the afterlife.

In the other religions and atheism, there is nothing higher than here, our existence is it, our lives are our own that have meaning and worth beyond being a god's bunch of whipping boys and girls. So an atheist and the other religious people can't imagine a higher authority, and nothing better and grander that could be served by the suffering of people - so we'd refuse.
 
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