Is it just me or...

[Tallis Rhul]

...is Star Trek: New Frontier wildly and horrendously inaccurate?

Before I continue I'd like to say how much I appreciate Peter David as a writer, and every trek book I've read by him (except the most recent one) has been thoroughly enjoyable, hugely convincing and fantastically compelling, but...

***Spoilers for Star Trek: New Frontier #3-Restoration for those that haven't read it***

McKenzie Calhoun: Does he have a reason for keeping that scar? He doesn't seem proud of it, and there are dermal regenerators for a reason, that's why we don't see masses of people rushing around with scars after all the ship and interpersonnel combat we see on TV... Also, if we're all supposed to love him so much then it'd be nice for him to be a little more believable (more intelligent than everyone else, stronger, faster, more agile... sigh). I'm pretty sure that there's a starfleet regulation against contamination of culture, which he flouts, before he even realises someone on the planet has had contact with aliens.

Elizabeth Shelby: OK, she was annoying in Best of Both Worlds, so the reasons behind her being Mac's voice of reason are completely understandable but... Captain and then Admiral within a few books? I don't know if it's the case that Mr. David actually worships the ground she walks on, but that's sure how it comes over. She all but violates the Prime Directive early on, completely ignoring her first officer (taking lessons from Janeway in that regard but for the fact that Janeway knows the Prime Directive is there for a reason and therefore doesn't violate it). She then steamrollers over her first officer and provides her with a tremendous amount of grief for very little, and pretty much bullies a non-Federation world into joining, holding them to the sword as she does. What makes it worse is that she then denies she did it. And people seem to believe her.

Montgomery Scott: Turns up for no reason on about page 270 out of 320 odd. Lovely to see him, but serves absolutely no purpose other than to pad out the last few chapters so we have to wait to see what's happening to Captain Calhoun.

Si Cwan: Am I really reading a novellisation of a Jet Li film? Come on, please.

"McMac": What? No. Just no. Star Trek's cheesy, but it's not that cheesy.

Safety Protocols: How many episodes of Star Trek have you seen where an officer dies in the holodeck because they disengaged the safety protocols? Of their own accord? For recreation? I count...none. Please reference one so I can at least feel a little better about this. Plus, are we really supposed to buy the fact that a Starfleet Officer of sound mind and correct training, a Chief of Security no less, would really meet their end by having their head stoved in by Thor? Er, no. We aren't. Get a frickin grip.

Maestress Cawfiel: I've seen grannies who are basically wizened old crones jump up and bully off for a game of tonsil hockey with people half their age. Happens all the time. I was like "... WHAT?"

Garbeck's drunken stupour: Let's spend as much time as possible rehashing ALL of the drunken clichés we can. It'll be fun, and not at all annoying or a waste of time.

Don't get me wrong, there were some really nice elements to the story. Rheela and Moke were believable characters and I wanted to see what happened to them, hence the reading the whole book. That aspect to the story was largely well handled.

It just made me... angry.

Anyways, if anyone has any angle into redeeming this book I'm open to it. PLEASE convince me I didn't waste hours of my life reading it, or make me feel better by agreeing with some of the points above!

 

[captcalhoun]

i liked it. you don't. whatever floats your boat.

Calhoun keeps the scar as a reminder to keep his guard up.

Shelby's promotion to Admiral comes after a three year gap between Stone and Anvil and After the Fall.

 

[Tallis Rhul]

OK, that's definitely conceivable, and not having read enough New Frontier I'm glad you cleared that up for me. The scar makes sense too.

The thing is, despite him being fitter, stronger, better etc. I do like Calhoun, his matter of factness is great.

Are the later New Frontiers more loyal to the mechanics of trek?

 

[Christopher]

Safety Protocols: How many episodes of Star Trek have you seen where an officer dies in the holodeck because they disengaged the safety protocols? Of their own accord? For recreation? I count...none.

We have seen that people can disengage the safety protocols and thereby put themselves at risk of death. Notably, B'Elanna Torres almost got herself killed that way in "Extreme Risk."

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I love New Frontier of all of the book series and I'm willing to admit there are some mistakes made here and there (the whole Pheytus fiasco in Cold Wars comes to mind), but I don't care for the most part.

However, since joining the Navy, I have to say that I finally understand why people were so annoyed by his misuse of XO in Once Burned. Pity since that's my second favorite Star Trek novel.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Anyways, if anyone has any angle into redeeming this book I'm open to it. PLEASE convince me I didn't waste hours of my life reading it, or make me feel better by agreeing with some of the points above!

Restoration is the nadir of New Frontier. Sorry. *shrug*

 

[Tallis Rhul]

Well in a way I'm pleased to hear that, I was planning on trying New Frontier again eventually so by the sound of things I should enjoy it more

Safety Protocols: How many episodes of Star Trek have you seen where an officer dies in the holodeck because they disengaged the safety protocols? Of their own accord? For recreation? I count...none.

We have seen that people can disengage the safety protocols and thereby put themselves at risk of death. Notably, B'Elanna Torres almost got herself killed that way in "Extreme Risk."

I'll check that out. It just seemed a bit of a ridiculous thing that the chief of security on a star ship would decide to sharpen up her skills in the holodeck fighting the likes of Thor and pals with them disengaged, it doesn't take much intelligence to figure you're in serious trouble against 5 superhumans armed with only a hand phaser. I know Peter David is also an excellent comic book writer but it still seems a bit random.

Thanks for the comments so far guys, I'm receptive to comments - I want to believe this is good and it's already helping

EDIT: B'Elanna was diagnosed with clinical depression in that story so that does explain it. It's conceivable that Shelby's CSO was suffering with the same, but there was no reference made to it by the Doctor upon examination of the death scene.

 

[Christopher]

Personally, I've always had a problem with the idea that a holodeck's safeties even could be turned off. But it's dramatically necessary, I guess.

(What particularly bugs me is holographic guns being deadly when the safeties are off. Why would a holo-gun be programmed to fire bullets in any circumstance? All you need for the illusion is the muzzle flash, the noise, and the effect of impact. Programming holo-guns to fire holo-bullets that are actually solid when the safeties are off is really going too far for authenticity.)

 

[Allyn Gibson]

You raise a good question, Christopher.

After First Contact, I wondered. Are the Borg immune to projectile weapons? We know they have force shields that can withstand phaser fire, but what about an armor-piercing bullet? If a holographic bullet could take down Borg drones, why not use something physical?

There are reasons not to use projectile weaponry aboard a starship; you wouldn't want to puncture the hull. But if a kinetic-energy solution works where a phased-energy solution would not, it's a solution that's worth investigating -- and possibly worth the risk.

Yes, Star Trek is science-fiction, but some of the engineering and technology is really overthought at times. Some situations are going to call for firearms and other comparatively low-tech solutions.

 

[Tallis Rhul]

That is a very good point... surely there'd come a point where Borg drones would adapt to projectile weapons as well?

Or Thor's hammer they could have used that program if they'd had it!

 

[Christopher]

There are reasons not to use projectile weaponry aboard a starship; you wouldn't want to puncture the hull.

That's a popular misconception. The hazards of a bullet penetrating the hull from the inside are equivalent to the hazards of a micrometeoroid penetrating the hull from the outside. And given how ubiquitous micrometeoroids are, any decently designed spaceship hull would have to be able to resist or rapidly seal a breach from a bullet-sized projectile.

The real hazard is that the bullets would damage important equipment within the ship. Phasers pose the same hazard, but at least they can be powered down to a less harmful level, and in the TNG era are interlocked with the ship's computer to prevent them from being set too high while aboard ship.

Then there's this:
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3l.html#slugthrowers

Speaking of bangs, one thing that virtually every sci-fi writer ignores is the fact that any boarding party is going to need hearing protection. Loud noises (like gunshots) are bad for ones hearing, and narrow metal corridors make great echo chambers, increasing the effect. A modern SWAT team uses suppressed weapons not for stealth, but to protect their own hearing. Anyone firing a weapon on-board a starship is going to have the exact same problem, only many times worse.

Unless, of course, it's an advanced firearm that uses a linear accelerator or something other than an explosion to propel the bullet.

The linked page also suggests frangible rounds or flechette shells as a means of protecting a ship's hull and equipment, if such protection is needed.

 

[Stephen!]

Safety Protocols: How many episodes of Star Trek have you seen where an officer dies in the holodeck because they disengaged the safety protocols? Of their own accord? For recreation? I count...none.

Holodeck safety protocols are probably like the 24th Century equivalent of Windows Vista's UAC .... Some people just want to turn it off.

 

[Corran Horn]

Personally, I've always had a problem with the idea that a holodeck's safeties even could be turned off. But it's dramatically necessary, I guess.

(What particularly bugs me is holographic guns being deadly when the safeties are off. Why would a holo-gun be programmed to fire bullets in any circumstance? All you need for the illusion is the muzzle flash, the noise, and the effect of impact. Programming holo-guns to fire holo-bullets that are actually solid when the safeties are off is really going too far for authenticity.)

That delves into the 'on a holodeck, what's real, what's replicated' question. Maybe Picard programmed the holodeck to replicate anything Dixon Hill touched?

 

[Christopher]

But the way "The Big Goodbye," First Contact, and "Spirit Folk" depicted it, holodeck bullets were harmless unless the safeties failed or were deactivated. If the safeties were on, there's no way bullets would be replicated under any circumstances -- or if they were, they'd be blanks.

 

[JarodRussell]

Depends on what those "safeties" actually do. Is everything on the Holodeck actually holographic, or is everything real matter, composed from a replicator? If so, a "safety" would need to detect human beings in the path of an artificial object and transport the matter away (for example a bullet) before it hits the human.

If stuff on the holodeck is actually just holographic, with force fields, then those "safeties" make not much sense. A bullet would then just be holographic without force fields, always, it would simply be programmed that way. It's like programming for computer games. You'd need to assign collision objects so that the physics actually work accurately for holograms. "Turning the safeties off" would mean you'd add collision detection for every hologram. That's not a passive "turn safeties off", that's more like an active "turn death mode on".

 

[Christopher]

Depends on what those "safeties" actually do. Is everything on the Holodeck actually holographic, or is everything real matter, composed from a replicator? If so, a "safety" would need to detect human beings in the path of an artificial object and transport the matter away (for example a bullet) before it hits the human.

That would be a thoroughly insane way to design the system and any engineer who proposed it would be fired on the spot. I say again, why would you need to simulate bullets at all? The people playing the game can't see the bullets; they move too fast. So there's absolutely zero reason to include live freaking ammunition as part of a game! If you want the players to have rounds they can handle and insert into the gun, you use blanks. There should never, under any conceivable circumstances, be live ammo flying around a holodeck.

Of course, in a realistic world, holodecks would've been pulled off the market (or the moneyless-economy equivalent) the first time they killed someone. Remember lawn darts? Banned in 1988 because their sharp points killed three children? How many fatalities or near-fatalities have holodecks/suites caused over 14 years of aired 24th-century ST?

 

[JarodRussell]

That would be a thoroughly insane way to design the system and any engineer who proposed it would be fired on the spot. I say again, why would you need to simulate bullets at all? The people playing the game can't see the bullets; they move too fast. So there's absolutely zero reason to include live freaking ammunition as part of a game! If you want the players to have rounds they can handle and insert into the gun, you use blanks. There should never, under any conceivable circumstances, be live ammo flying around a holodeck.

Of course, in a realistic world, holodecks would've been pulled off the market (or the moneyless-economy equivalent) the first time they killed someone. Remember lawn darts? Banned in 1988 because their sharp points killed three children? How many fatalities or near-fatalities have holodecks/suites caused over 14 years of aired 24th-century ST?

Well, it's not only about bullets, there's also rocks, arrows, knifes, etc. that could kill you. Real, replicated objects at first I guess, and when the safety protocols are activated, they dematerialize at the right moment. Or are they just photons and force fields, and that activated force field kills you?

 

[Christopher]

But you can see rocks, arrows, and knives. There's a reason for the computer to simulate the actual objects in flight, even if safeties exist. There is no reason why it should be necessary for a holodeck to have guns that actually fire bullets, because nobody participating in the event (except Data or maybe Geordi) could see the bullets. They're not a necessary part of a convincing simulation. There's no reason for them to be there in the first place, so there's no reason why turning off the safeties would make them lethal. Even with the safeties off, there should be no bullets whose condition would be altered in any way by that deactivation.

 

[rahullak]

Well, it's not only about bullets, there's also rocks, arrows, knifes, etc. that could kill you. Real, replicated objects at first I guess, and when the safety protocols are activated, they dematerialize at the right moment. Or are they just photons and force fields, and that activated force field kills you?

I suppose that would be the way holodecks would be designed for weapons that you can "see". With the safeties on, the computer can decide when you are in imminent danger of being hit and make the weapon ephemeral (as in one of the Voyager episodes where the Doctor slaps Paris and makes himself non-solid when Paris tries to return the slap). If the holodeck computers can do this for high-velocity projectiles, then this could conceivably by used with "real replicated" bullets. They'd have to be extremely confident of the safeties working though (and from the large number of episodes with safeties going off or malfunctions, I'm surprised we didn't see any lack of confidence in the holodeck by any crew members). The risk of injury or death is actually a rather steep trade-off for authenticity.

 

[Arpy]

I agree with Tallis, and have never understood the appeal of the New Frontier series. It's smarmy, with a huge chip on its shoulder.