Is confusion driving away new fans?
- Thread starter Joshua Howard
- Start date
I'm a person of two minds on this. Look I understand when you spend more money on a film than just about any other one in history, you need to bring in more than the ordinary (and I mean that in a good way) Trek fans.
Look at Indiana Jones, huge opening weekend, fell off fifty-one percent this weekend. If you are spending two hundred million on a film (and that's a conservative estimate for Trek) you need a film with legs. There haven't been a lot of those in the last few years. The last film with REAL legs was "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", not a lot of sequels there.
So I get it, they have to draw in everyone, make it appealing to Trek fans, women who never heard of Trek, and make it good enough for people to want to see it more than once. There's not been a ton of repeat business for Indy, or Ironman for that matter.
So the other side of my brain says, YOU CAN'T CHANGE A FREAKING THING! SAME SHIP, SAME SETS, SAME PROPS! HOW DARE YOU SCREW WITH CANNON. (yea I want the voices in my head to stop screaming too)
So this film has to walk the most perilous journey, on a sword's edge that is so thin it can't support any weight. Appeal to everyone, and yet not make the Trek fans burn the prints for heresy. This is a tall and confusing order, we are less than a year out (thank you Paramount for the push back) and we only know that things aren't going to be much like the original series.
I think they would have been wiser to do a "Doctor Who" like reboot/restart, and continue forward. Tipping the hat to the past, without completely ignoring it, or worse, erasing it. JJ has a great track record, but let's just hope that JJ doesn't stand for Jar Jar. Because then we are all truly and completely buggered!
Look at Indiana Jones, huge opening weekend, fell off fifty-one percent this weekend. If you are spending two hundred million on a film (and that's a conservative estimate for Trek) you need a film with legs. There haven't been a lot of those in the last few years. The last film with REAL legs was "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", not a lot of sequels there.
So I get it, they have to draw in everyone, make it appealing to Trek fans, women who never heard of Trek, and make it good enough for people to want to see it more than once. There's not been a ton of repeat business for Indy, or Ironman for that matter.
So the other side of my brain says, YOU CAN'T CHANGE A FREAKING THING! SAME SHIP, SAME SETS, SAME PROPS! HOW DARE YOU SCREW WITH CANNON. (yea I want the voices in my head to stop screaming too)
So this film has to walk the most perilous journey, on a sword's edge that is so thin it can't support any weight. Appeal to everyone, and yet not make the Trek fans burn the prints for heresy. This is a tall and confusing order, we are less than a year out (thank you Paramount for the push back) and we only know that things aren't going to be much like the original series.
I think they would have been wiser to do a "Doctor Who" like reboot/restart, and continue forward. Tipping the hat to the past, without completely ignoring it, or worse, erasing it. JJ has a great track record, but let's just hope that JJ doesn't stand for Jar Jar. Because then we are all truly and completely buggered!
Obviously it isn't, or it wouldn't be so unpopular.
Bingo.
I got into Trek when I was 11. This was back in 94, when there was already quite a bit of Trek out there. TOS was still in syndication, TNG was just finishing up (I watched TNG s7 first run) , DS9 had been going for a couple of seasons, and VOY was about to begin.
I wasn't daunted by all the reams of material out there. I took it as an interesting challenge to catch up with it all. I simply bought a copy of the ST Encyclopedia to fill myself in on the blanks (an excellent resource for the show, it desperetely needs an updated edition soon) and away I went on my journey to watch all of ST. And within a year or two, I had managed to see every ST episode and movie produced up to that point.
I don't think the huge back history neccessarily puts off new fans. I agree with what some other posters have said about the supposed 'geeky' stigma. Trek fans, more than the shows themselves, puts people off, I think. I have never got why Star Wars is 'cool' and ST isn't. I've tried to get my two younger brothers (aged 13 and 15) into Star Trek, without much success. They will sit down and watch Star Wars without problems, but for whatever reason Trek is 'lame' and 'cheesy'.
Although, interestingly, what little I have shown them of TOS and DS9, they thought was 'cool'. Especially the former. This surprises me greatly. Not because I don't believe TOS is cool (it is indeed), but because I find it very interesting that it resonates with kids who weren't even born until 30 years after it was produced.
I doubt Trek will ever climb back to the top of the mainstream pop culture pedestal ever again. But who cares? They can have their American Idol and Big Brother, for all I care.
I wasn't daunted by all the reams of material out there. I took it as an interesting challenge to catch up with it all. I simply bought a copy of the ST Encyclopedia to fill myself in on the blanks (an excellent resource for the show, it desperetely needs an updated edition soon) and away I went on my journey to watch all of ST. And within a year or two, I had managed to see every ST episode and movie produced up to that point.
I don't think the huge back history neccessarily puts off new fans. I agree with what some other posters have said about the supposed 'geeky' stigma. Trek fans, more than the shows themselves, puts people off, I think. I have never got why Star Wars is 'cool' and ST isn't. I've tried to get my two younger brothers (aged 13 and 15) into Star Trek, without much success. They will sit down and watch Star Wars without problems, but for whatever reason Trek is 'lame' and 'cheesy'.
Although, interestingly, what little I have shown them of TOS and DS9, they thought was 'cool'. Especially the former. This surprises me greatly. Not because I don't believe TOS is cool (it is indeed), but because I find it very interesting that it resonates with kids who weren't even born until 30 years after it was produced.
I doubt Trek will ever climb back to the top of the mainstream pop culture pedestal ever again. But who cares? They can have their American Idol and Big Brother, for all I care.
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
These people think that they have problems with Star Trek? I have problems with X-Men! I can't get into the regular series, only the Ultimates version, because those are published later as TPB's that I can collect easily. I can now get into the DC books (Teen Titans being one) because of this new TPB policy, but some comic book series, I'm not too sure where to start. So my sympathy level is not as high as it should be-the shows are on DVD, they're quite easy to recognize, and people should get them in the order that they're issued. They also have online resourses like Wikipedia and Memory Alpha to help them out-just type in 'Star Trek' and they should get the info they need.
You'd be surprised by how much Trek knowledge has trickled into the general p ublic awareness,even people who rarely if ever watch the show.
Besides which,the Trek premise,is not that complicated.A crew,a ship,adventure .What complicates Trek and it's enjoyment is the obsessive/possessive(even agressive)nature of THE HARD CORE FANS.
This isn't aimed at anyone specific,but ......
Besides which,the Trek premise,is not that complicated.A crew,a ship,adventure .What complicates Trek and it's enjoyment is the obsessive/possessive(even agressive)nature of THE HARD CORE FANS.
This isn't aimed at anyone specific,but ......
I think it is a factor...but not the main factor.
I mean, let's face it: starting from scratch, it is a really intimidating task to 'get caught up' on Trek. I can't imagine trying to do that, if I hadn't grown up on the thing and had 35+ years to watch all this stuff.
700+ episodes, plus several movies, is alot of viewing, by any standard.
In fact, I often wonder how many here have really done that. Because I see alot of comments on this board which indicate to me that some people fairly routinely make comments (particularly negative comments) about shows they have never even seen.
I mean, let's face it: starting from scratch, it is a really intimidating task to 'get caught up' on Trek. I can't imagine trying to do that, if I hadn't grown up on the thing and had 35+ years to watch all this stuff.
700+ episodes, plus several movies, is alot of viewing, by any standard.
In fact, I often wonder how many here have really done that. Because I see alot of comments on this board which indicate to me that some people fairly routinely make comments (particularly negative comments) about shows they have never even seen.
I didn't find it too confusing when I was starting out. My first exposure to Star Trek was Voyager when it first was aired. I was flipping through the channels, saw the episode "The Cloud" really liked what I saw and kept watching. This happened around Star Trek's 25 annerversity and there was SO much information about Star Trek around that time. I started watching TNG reruns and caught DS9 when I could. TOS wasn't aired so I'd save up my allowance money and buy a VHS episode whenever I could.
Also eventually got the movies on tape and watched them all. So essentially I started watching ALL FOUR series around the same time! It didn't find it too difficult. It was made clear that TOS was in 23rd century and the first six movies followed up on those characters. TNG took place in the 24th Century and Voyager and DS9 were spun off from that series.
As I remember correctly, once I became interested in Trek I sought out more information about it and got magazines and books, so anything I was confused about I just referred to one of those sources. My family had just gotten the internet in the 90s too and soon I found it to be a good source of info.
Also eventually got the movies on tape and watched them all. So essentially I started watching ALL FOUR series around the same time! It didn't find it too difficult. It was made clear that TOS was in 23rd century and the first six movies followed up on those characters. TNG took place in the 24th Century and Voyager and DS9 were spun off from that series.
As I remember correctly, once I became interested in Trek I sought out more information about it and got magazines and books, so anything I was confused about I just referred to one of those sources. My family had just gotten the internet in the 90s too and soon I found it to be a good source of info.
Im surprised so many here don't see how it can be a pain in the ass getting into star trek. There are 11 movies with 5 television series. For those of us in the know, sure, we can make heads or tails out of all this stuff. For someone who is fresh to the franchise though it would be incredibly easy to get lost in all the details. After all, there are several hundred episodes. now for someone like me who prefers to watch things in order, this would be a nightmare. Luckily enough though, I started with TNG so I made out easy.
Well, I guess it might be a pain in the ass for SOME, but as I explained above there were 4 TV series and 7 movies when I started getting into Star Trek, and I don't remember it being very difficult at all. I can't imagine I would have had that much more trouble with one extra series and three extra movies.
I think older Star Trek fans forget sometimes what it's like to start out as a Trekker. When I first started watching it, I just loved the idea of there being a starship exploring space and fun characters getting in adventures and interesting aliens. As you watch more and more you eventually get drawn into the whole universe and all those details are learned over time.
I think older Star Trek fans forget sometimes what it's like to start out as a Trekker. When I first started watching it, I just loved the idea of there being a starship exploring space and fun characters getting in adventures and interesting aliens. As you watch more and more you eventually get drawn into the whole universe and all those details are learned over time.
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