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Is anybody out there?

T

truespock

Lieutenant
Red Shirt
I am searching. Actually, I spend way too much time on my quest--several hours each day on the various Trek sites; every spare moment usually--but I'm guessing the end is nearing. You see, I am methodically traipsing across the planet, via the dubious 'miracle' of the internet, looking for another being, or beings, with an education and background similar to mine, who sees more significance in the magnificent richness and texture of the epic 45 year Star Trek Saga than merely, "Which captain do you think has the nicest ass?", or, "What Trek 'hottie' has the best rack?", or, "Kirk and Spock are gay lovers--It's canon...live with it!"

If you haven't already stopped reading this, preferring instead to peruse the latest postings of scantily clad 'convention babes' on 'you-know-what space', then you're way ahead of the pack. But be forewarned! If you ever dare to pose the simple question, "Isn't there any more to it for you than this?", to the unwashed masses, they will immediately descend upon you like demented and ravenous rabid wolves, attacking everything from your credentials to your very masculinity, and all the while screeching maniacally, "You're 'dissing' US, and need to be taken down a peg or two!" Ah, mob rule...what an ingenious way to run a society!

Anybody still with me? There are any number of really well thought out topics on this site, to several of which, I have given my heartfelt response. I'm still waiting to hear back from some first class Trek minds...is anybody out there?

Retired clinical psychologist and university professor, happily married, untimate Spock fan
 
I don't possess any "official" credentials that make me a worthy find in your quest. Nevertheless, being somewhat intelligent and usually fairly observant (at least as far as human nature is concerned), I might be able to engage you in some Trek related conversations that go deeper than "Why do we only ever see one Jeffries tube in TOS?" or some such trivia.

One of the great appeals of Star Trek is that it often gives us a mirror for ourselves and, assuming we are courageous enough to gaze into that mirror, offers some very insightful and thought provoking reflections. Although, I'd be lying if I said I didn't also dig the female characters in their scanty '60's garb! ;)
 
I will concede that some people seem more occupied by the way characters look or who was in love with who, but don't forget that Trek was, and is, not only about stories, philosophie and science. It's about people, characters. We have come to love them and hate them, care for them and loath them. And trivial things like who has the better rack or if someone is gay or not is very normal behaviour. It's something humans always have done, and probably always will do. We like to talk about people we don't know, whether fake or famous, because it makes us feel closer to them. And it's very normal to want to be close to someone you idolize. We find ways to do that, and silly behaviour is among those ways.

But other then that, yes. I also feel this forum could use some more deeper and, dare I say, more intellectual discussion of this huge entity called Star Trek.
 
There is no-one out here, truespock. But keep searching, True Seeker, and maybe someday you will find what you are looking for. Godspeed! Godspeed!
 
Mage said:
We like to talk about people we don't know, whether fake or famous, because it makes us feel closer to them.
Click to expand...

Dare I say, we also like to talk about others because it makes us feel better about ourselves? Thankfully the banter among most Trek fans is positive in its nature, if sometimes superficial in its content.

The beautiful thing about Star Trek is that it provides a multitude of ways for us, the viewers, to feel good about ourselves without resorting to oft-used and ill advised disparaging others approach.

Kudos Mr. Roddenberry!
 
what was the question again? you want to talk about star trek, but not talk about it?
 
Have you considered moving into the fanfic section of the board? While I'm sure there's some "pairing" material that would not be to your tastes, I think there are a number of good authors exploring deep themes who might be willing to engage in the kind of discussion that you like. That would mean an investment in time to read their/our writing, but it might be worth your while.

If you describe what kinds of themes you're interested in, I could point you in the directions of some authors who write more developed material along whatever themes interest you.
 
Oh, one more thing.

If you do go to the fanfic section, be prepared to read and engage with the authors on their turf. Just posting a "soapbox thread" there isn't likely to be well received.
 
I lack the education you have and I will never be a clinical psychologist. I try to be thoughtful and to analyze the series I am interested in (the first three, all the movies). I have seen meaningful discussion here on this site, more than on Startrek.com, for instance. It was a breath of fresh air when I came here. I am saddened that you did not have the same view. So here are some thoughts to chew on and I hope you will respond to them. Let's start a conversation here in this thread.

On Deep Space Nine:
Deep Space Nine does not establish the Star Trek universe. The Trek universe is of a colorless, nationless, egalitarian Starfleet that attempts to learn what it can about the life-forms that it encounters and provides aid and support to all aliens. This is found in Star Trek (along with a competent and valued crew in the Original Series) and in Star Trek: The Next Generation (which emphasized Starfleet more as pacifists, re: respect for life). It is important to know the Trek universe for Deep Space Nine to stand out.

DS9 puts the Star Trek universe in danger. We take on a peace mission with the Bajoran people, who have responded from years of war and occupation in a very peaceful way, and in doing so, have gained attention for potentially becoming a member of the Federation. In many ways we prop up the government with Starfleet's military strength. The Cardassians do not dare try to re-conquer Bajor and we are able to act as mediators for potential internal conflict. Part of their peaceful approach is their religion and the strength, leadership, and morals it brought to their people during a time when they lived on fighting for their freedom alone. They gain political relevance by finding the Wormhole--a gateway to an unexplored region of space. Still, the young government and the potential power that the religious leaders could gain are a source of conflict and therefore drama in the first few seasons.

Despite the Bajorans laying down their weapons, there's also hatred for the former oppressors. Major Kira Nerys is a big part of this. She hates not Gul Dukat, who oversaw the Occupation of Bajor, and the military leaders of the Government. She thinks all Cardassians are responsible and the race is generally evil. It even calls for her to side with the Maquis, a separatist sect of the Federation, unhappy with the Cardassian-Federation Peace Treaty that reminds Kira of her own past as a résistance fighter. She survived on her hatred, but now there's really no place for it on the station. This softens in the later seasons, but at the beginning of the series, she is a bigot.

Enter the Dominion. I alluded to this earlier, but the Founders and the Bajorans have much in common. They both have been mistreated in the universe and have responded in very different ways. The Founders, shape-shifters, now are xenophobes that genetically engineer "solids" to do their dirty work. They have no respect for them. They do not value their lives. They are to do the Founders bidding and that's it. Yet, their vows of allegiance have led to a culture of seeing the Founders as gods. The series has given us a dark Bajor, an understandable enemy (like Ben Sisko towards Picard, Kira Nerys towards Cardassians) that had appeared in alternate timelines (TNG's Parallels, the DS9 alternate universe).

Meanwhile, the Federation has been put in the same situation. If they lose this war, they will be resistance fighters against the enslavement of the Dominion. They face several moral dilemmas because of this conflict. First, they are told not to come through the "gateway." Will they continue to explore? Second, they are told the Founders are "everywhere." How will they defend themselves when the Dominion threat becomes real in the Alpha Quadrant? And finally, what is the larger moral imperative: to end the war fast and restore our way of life (respecting life, exploring, etc.) or keeping our morals in a prolonged war we may end up losing? In the end, elements of the Federation make a moral decision to attempt genocide of the Founders. It ends the war. So what will we do in the aftermath? We never got an answer to that question.

-----------------------------------

I tend to take your attitude, not with the Babes of Trek, but those that enjoy the fighting without realizing what it means. Star Trek is supposed to be more thoughtful and peaceful than that. When there is an attack, or they use phasers, there is a reason (mostly defense) for why Starfleet officers become military officers. Otherwise, it is just another action series and I wouldn't spend more than a couple of minutes analyzing it.
 
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truespock said:
I am searching. Actually, I spend way too much time on my quest--several hours each day on the various Trek sites; every spare moment usually--but I'm guessing the end is nearing. You see, I am methodically traipsing across the planet, via the dubious 'miracle' of the internet, looking for another being, or beings, with an education and background similar to mine, who sees more significance in the magnificent richness and texture of the epic 45 year Star Trek Saga than merely, "Which captain do you think has the nicest ass?", or, "What Trek 'hottie' has the best rack?", or, "Kirk and Spock are gay lovers--It's canon...live with it!"
Click to expand...

If you have reached just one person on your quest then it has not been in vain. I am not as articulate or educated as you are, but I "get" your ideals.
 
While I stay away from the lowbrow threads - like the ageless question of "Can a Founder be assimilated?" or classics like "In a bar fight, would Kirk open a giant can of whoop-ass on Sisko or the other way around?" - and while I appreciate the ethical, scientific and psychological issues dealt with in Star Trek, it is still first and foremost a character drama that aims to entertain. I get true enjoyment out of watching it, and when I deal with my Trek friends, we discuss the merits of episodes and character arcs, poke fun at inconsistencies and character idiosyncrasies, go to conventions or wallow in the memory of our more rambunctious convention binges. We do speak about Star Trek's philosophical ramifications from time to time, but mostly, we're aiming to have the most fun possible. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Bottom line: I do consider myself mildly educated, but in that regard you seem to have the edge on me and most people on this message board. I also know when I'm being insulted and I take offense when an elitist tells me I'm part of the "unwashed masses".
 
truespock said:
Actually, I spend way too much time on my quest--several hours each day on the various Trek sites; every spare moment usually
Click to expand...

So, when you see someone's posts that seem to show that you and they are on similar wavelengths, just send that poster a PM or a "Friend" request.

If you ever dare to pose the simple question, "Isn't there any more to it for you than this?", to the unwashed masses, they will immediately descend upon you like demented and ravenous rabid wolves, attacking everything from your credentials to your very masculinity, and all the while screeching maniacally, "You're 'dissing' US, and need to be taken down a peg or two!" Ah, mob rule...what an ingenious way to run a society!
Click to expand...
Well, when you phrase it like that, even I feel like descending immediately upon you like a demented and ravenous, rabid, Andorian wolf.

I'm still waiting to hear back from some first class Trek minds...is anybody out there?
Click to expand...
I dunno. I think you've scared off the washed and the unwashed. :eek:
 
Please, kindly disregard any "official credentials" which might be inferred from my humble scribblings...believe me, I do! Ultimately, I just wanna talk about my favorite thing in the world--Star Trek. And, yes; those big bosomed, leggy girls in their TOS micro mini's do STILL rock the universe.

I'm neither intending, nor attempting to come off as 'elitist', my friends, although I DO seem to get that reaction quite a lot. I am merely hoping to cut through some of the crap I've encountered on MANY other Trek boards. Unfortunately, my bitterness over past experiences seems to be showing...not very Vulcan of me, I grant you. As to the reference to 'soapbox posts', is THAT what I'm coming across like? Not a very hopeful sign, is it?

P.S.: 7 of 9 has 'the best rack' in Star Trek, duh!
 
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I've been to a number of different Trek sites and the TBBS is definately one of if not the best of the lot. Yeah, sure I see a lot of what I consider to be silly discussions, but I've also seen some very deep and meaningful discussions spring from seemingly innocent initial subjects. Even when I don't agree (and sometimes strongly) with individual posters around here I still often find them insightful and thought provoking. There have been a number of times I've read something that caused me to reconsider my own view and/or sharpen my perspective. Of course I don't always change my mind, but I value being prompted to reevaluate my own thinking.

One thing I've learned is you can't afford to have a thin skin around here. Sarcasm and some forms of humour don't always come across in text on a screen and often enough something can be taken wrongly and not as it was intended. Sometimes I fail, but I do try to give folks benefit of the doubt before immediately assuming they're deliberately being offensive. And if we're honest then we know that we don't always express ourselves as we intend and we might inadvertently offend someone.

Yes, there are some simple minded folk around any site, but I've also found quite a few very sharp people around here. If you overlook that in the Trek forums you can certainly see it in the non-Trek subjects.
 
I reach, brother! Sorry...couldn't resist using that line, even if it is from one of my least favorite episodes.

Warped9 - very well spoken. I have spent considerable time on other BBS type sites and, although I'm relatively new here, I find TrekBBS to be among the best. I'm sure truespock will find any number of folks here with whom he can engage in meaningful discussions.

truespock - you don't come off as "elitist" at all. In fact, it has been my experience that those who might label one as an elitist are usually feeling threatened by a person whose intelligence, eloquence, perceptiveness, or skill they deem to be greater than their own. And that's totally OK because it's an extremely human thing to do - and we're all human so its all good. Anyway, once again - welcome!
 
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