Into Darkness: What stopped the war?

[Tallguy]

I just watched Into Darkness again last night. With more detachment from both Star Trek and the messages of the film I admit I hated it a little less. (I just blacked out for a moment when Spock shouts "Khannnn" and I'm so much happier.)

But now I have a question: What stopped the war? Marcus achieved what he set out to do: Seemingly unprovoked violent incursion into Klingon space by not one, but two Federation starships.

Why is there not a war?

When I saw this in the theaters (the only other time I've seen it from start to finish) I was so disgusted with the film by the time that Kirk dies that I missed how quickly the movie wraps up. Khan is captured, Kirk is brought back to life, and the movie ends.

Did I miss something?

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Well, he wanted mass destruction, no? We ended up with a shuttle full of squabbling Starfleeters who went to a zero-value area of Qo'nos and were out again after a skirmish with the local militia or something. Hardlyt he stuff of invasion. If the diplomats did their job right and honorably exposed their internal consipracy, I don't see how they could have pulled another Khitomer out of their hats and diffused the situation (or at least restored the status quo)... To the point that Kirk and company could take their newly-fixed flagship out on a five-year mission and NOT to the front lines of a new war.

Or, the war happened in the year Enterprise was in spacedock getting shiny new impulse engines, the Feds won by giant military might, and it was a year later that Kirk was able to leave the battlefield for some R&R in deep space :P

Mark

 

[Richard Baker]

While two Federation Starships were in Klingon space, they really didn't do much besides leave. The Mudd-Shuttle was used so have plausible deniability and as mentioned, only a handful of local militia involved. A mess to deal with politically, but nothing rose to the level of declaring all out war.

I do think Marcus was right, that the Klingon Empire was preparing for a conflict, but it would happen on their terms, their timing and when they were ready to execute it for the win.

 

[KGator]

Maybe they saw how devastating the Vengeance could be and changed their minds. After all, did you see what that ship did to San Francisco? Tore . . . it . . . up!!!!

 

[Timo]

Why is there not a war?

Because Klingons are not interested in having one?

That they would be is Marcus' supposition, and his agenda really isn't to protect the UFP from a threat. It is to be the man who protects the UFP, even if that requires making up a threat out of whole cloth. Probably he knows squat about Klingons and their willingness to have war.

Possibly Klingons would like to have a war some day. But all the days between the opening credits of ST:ID and the closing ones of ST:B may be bad ones to die. Perhaps because there's that giant shattered moon in the process of crashing onto the homeworld?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[drt]

I don't think Enterprise and Vengeance were ever detected. From the Klingons' point-of-view a small non-Federation spacecraft got into a skirmish with some military troops in an uninhabited region of Kronos and utterly defeated them. While they may have suspected the involvement of Earthers, seems like they may have also preferred not to admit three scout ships full of Klingons just got their asses kicked by space pirates.

 

[publiusr]

Also--the Praxis event seems to have happened earlier in this timeline. And visually, it looked worse.

In ST: TUC, The Klingon Empire was larger, more spread out.

I think even Starfleet was fooled.

Much the same thing with our own Cold War. The Sputnik deal made the Soviet Union look a bigger threat. While there was a rocketry gap--there was no missile gap--if that makes any sense.

 

[Markonian]

In the comics, S31 executes a strategy that cripples the Romulan and Klingon war machine, the "Khitomer Conflict".

 

[The Wormhole]

In the comics, S31 executes a strategy that cripples the Romulan and Klingon war machine, the "Khitomer Conflict".

Might as well work as an explanation. And given it was the second story arc done after STID's release, I assumed at the time it was Orci's way of clearing the Klingons out of the way for his Trek XIII.

 

[Nyotarules]

Because Klingons are not interested in having one?

That they would be is Marcus' supposition, and his agenda really isn't to protect the UFP from a threat. It is to be the man who protects the UFP, even if that requires making up a threat out of whole cloth. Probably he knows squat about Klingons and their willingness to have war.

Possibly Klingons would like to have a war some day. But all the days between the opening credits of ST:ID and the closing ones of ST:B may be bad ones to die. Perhaps because there's that giant shattered moon in the process of crashing onto the homeworld?

Timo Saloniemi

Marcus is the Dick Cheney of STID, the so called war was as real as Saddam Hussien's WMDS, and we all know how well that turned out in the real world.....The Empire was in no position to go to war, Praxis, a major industrial center is dead and a lot of their ships were destroyed by Nero, war with the Feds would mean suicide for The Empire. Plus as far as they know The Feds have red matter on tap. The Empire is warlike but not stupid.

 

[Noname Given]

Marcus is the Dick Cheney of STID, the so called war was as real as Saddam Hussien's WMDS, and we all know how well that turned out in the real world.....The Empire was in no position to go to war, Praxis, a major industrial center is dead and a lot of their ships were destroyed by Nero, war with the Feds would mean suicide for The Empire. Plus as far as they know The Feds have red matter on tap. The Empire is warlike but not stupid.

Nero pretty much wiped out most of the Federation Fleet as well over Vulcan. He was an equal opportunity destroyer.

Overall, numbers wise, the Fed and KE fleets were probably in similar straits; and BOTH groups were out developing nastier weapons 'for protection' as a result.

 

[The Wormhole]

Nero pretty much wiped out most of the Federation Fleet as well over Vulcan. He was an equal opportunity destroyer.

Overall, numbers wise, the Fed and KE fleets were probably in similar straits; and BOTH groups were out developing nastier weapons 'for protection' as a result.

Bah? Nero took out six or seven ships. The bulk of Starfleet's ships weren't even at Vulcan, they were off doing "something" in the Laurentian System.

 

[Nyotarules]

Bah? Nero took out six or seven ships. The bulk of Starfleet's ships weren't even at Vulcan, they were off doing "something" in the Laurentian System.

But he destroyed the local Vulcan Defence force, hence the call to Starfleet to help out

 

[The Wormhole]

But he destroyed the local Vulcan Defence force, hence the call to Starfleet to help out

That's hardly the "bulk of the Federation's forces." Especially considering the Vulcans being pacifists likely have one of the smaller defense forces, as opposed to a more warrior race like the Andorians.

 

[Timo]

It was Nero's tactic to strike where the enemy was weak - wisely so, as he was trying to take down cruisers and destroyers with an oil rig! A victory against the weak point of the enemy would not weaken the enemy as such, nor would it paint the defeated party as weak to conventional threats.

Deciding whether Nero weakened the Klingons means deciding whether Nero actually managed to take out 47 Klingon ships with a red matter bomb or something like that (as his missile weapons did very little damage against the Kelvin and the Enterprise), or whether he just lied about that to lure Starfleet to Laurentius to meet this mysterious armada-eating bogeyman.

Especially considering the Vulcans being pacifists

Now where does this idea come from? Vulcans have never refused a fight; if anything, Spock was the fiercest proponent of aggression aboard the Enterprise, Sarek a ruthless murderer-in-potentia, etc.

An illusory form of Surak just happened to think it wiser to negotiate with the Excalbian puppet master than pointlessly fight fellow illusions that he decided were not the enemy, and further marketed himself as the best negotiator by flaunting his portfolio of having ended the Vulcan wars. The concept of pacifism didn't enter even that discussion.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nyotarules]

Now where does this idea come from? Vulcans have never refused a fight; if anything, Spock was the fiercest proponent of aggression aboard the Enterprise, Sarek a ruthless murderer-in-potentia, etc.

An illusory form of Surak just happened to think it wiser to negotiate with the Excalbian puppet master than pointlessly fight fellow illusions that he decided were not the enemy, and further marketed himself as the best negotiator by flaunting his portfolio of having ended the Vulcan wars. The concept of pacifism didn't enter even that discussion.

Timo Saloniemi

The Gorn episode with the 'fake', Surak
Sarek's attitude to Spock joining Starfleet but that could be due to a son not following in his father's footsteps.
Reinforced by novels such as 'The Good that men do' with T'Pau and other Syrannites being pacifists and who refused to help Earth fight the Romulans until the very last minute...the bitch!
But agree its all circumstantial that does not really add up

 

[The Wormhole]

Now where does this idea come from? Vulcans have never refused a fight; if anything, Spock was the fiercest proponent of aggression aboard the Enterprise, Sarek a ruthless murderer-in-potentia, etc.

Regardless, Enterprise established when T'Pau took over the Vulcan High Command one of her first moves was to dramatically decrease the size of Vulcan's defense fleet. Because of this, Vulcan had so few ships available to help fight the Romulan drone ship later on in the season.

From this, we can infer that by the 2250s, Vulcan's defense forces are probably the smaller of such forces in the Federation.

 

[Timo]

This is very likely - but OTOH T'Pau's policy of reducing Vulcan interventionism (or indeed implementing actual pacifism, even though we never really hear of such a thing) would mean that all of that force stays home to defend Vulcan, while the Earth contribution to Starfleet is scattered across the quadrant...

Vulcan's defenses in STXI are a source of enduring debate. There's the Mayflower, a starship not mentioned as being among those launched from Earth and apparently possessing at least two saucer hulls, one of these larger than the entire Enterprise... OTOH, there are no small aircraft that could challenge Nero's highly vulnerable drill. What about fortifications on the surface or in orbit? Too automated for their own good, thus easily jammed by Nero's standard trick of torturing the control codes out of a captured officer?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I still find it funny that the "edge of Klingon space" just happens to be right within the Klingon's own solar system, only far enough to see Kronos with the naked eye. When you consider that factor and that they were easily wiped out by Khan, I don't think the Klingons pose a serious threat in the Kelvin Timeline. They really were made to look like chumps that Marcus probably only wanted a war because he knew Starfleet could easily win it and gain a foothold of Kronos... Though if "Klingon space" is only limited to Kronos's orbit, I can't see what real value there is.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Nero did not defeat the Klingons with red matter.
He only got that after capturing the Jellyfish.
His very next stop after that was Vulcan.