When does a relationship cross the line? Troi-Riker and Troi-Worf didn't really make anyone unhappy.
Interpersonal Relationships and Ranks
- Thread starter Xerxes1979
- Start date
If you mean romantic relationships on Trek, as far as I can tell, there is no line. Officers are expected to figure out for themselves what is appropriate and what they can and cannot handle.
Which is, I have to say if you allow me to get on my soapbox for a minute, just stupid. I thought so from the moment I saw my first episode of TNG (I was too young to consider this when I first saw TOS). I don't know if the writers genuinely wanted us to believe that humans in the 24th century are "advanced" enough that relationships between superiors and subordinants won't be the enormous problem they have been for the rest of human history, or - which I think is more likely - if they just decided to ignore it because they wanted to leave themselves lots of room for romantic plots. But whatever the reason, it completely ignores how humans actually behave. *gets off soapbox*
If this sounds as though I've considered this question before, it's because I have. I've ranted about this plenty in the Voyager forum.
Edit: So as for your poll, Xerxes, you don't have an option for me, because I'd check the one that says "all of them cross the line." Starfleet, however, would disagree.
Which is, I have to say if you allow me to get on my soapbox for a minute, just stupid. I thought so from the moment I saw my first episode of TNG (I was too young to consider this when I first saw TOS). I don't know if the writers genuinely wanted us to believe that humans in the 24th century are "advanced" enough that relationships between superiors and subordinants won't be the enormous problem they have been for the rest of human history, or - which I think is more likely - if they just decided to ignore it because they wanted to leave themselves lots of room for romantic plots. But whatever the reason, it completely ignores how humans actually behave. *gets off soapbox*
If this sounds as though I've considered this question before, it's because I have. I've ranted about this plenty in the Voyager forum.
Edit: So as for your poll, Xerxes, you don't have an option for me, because I'd check the one that says "all of them cross the line." Starfleet, however, would disagree.
Last edited:
Romantic relationships between characters of different ranks, I take it?
I'm OK with the idea as long as both are emotional equals -- freely involved for the right reasons (no pressure and no ulterior motives, such as the desire for advancement -- see Mirror Universe).
I would say a good example would be Picard and Crusher. He would never press an advantage, and she'd kick his butt if he tried.
ENT's "A Night in Sickbay" is alternative example. Archer wonders if he has a chance, and T'Pol pretty much says nah. He graciously accepts no for an answer and never mentions it again.
I'm OK with the idea as long as both are emotional equals -- freely involved for the right reasons (no pressure and no ulterior motives, such as the desire for advancement -- see Mirror Universe
).I would say a good example would be Picard and Crusher. He would never press an advantage, and she'd kick his butt if he tried.
ENT's "A Night in Sickbay" is alternative example. Archer wonders if he has a chance, and T'Pol pretty much says nah. He graciously accepts no for an answer and never mentions it again.
If this sounds as though I've considered this question before, it's because I have. I've ranted about this plenty in the Voyager forum.
however, would disagree.
In Voyager weren't most relationships among officers of equal rank? Seven and Kes were essentially civilians.
^ On a ship, nobody is equal to the captain, and nobody is equal to the first officer, either. So, I would say there was plenty of room for trouble there - if for example, Janeway and Chakotay had ever gotten romantically involved (which they apparently never did - not where we could see them, anyway - and I say thank goodness for that).
My own feeling - which, as I mentioned before, those sillies at Starfleet do not share - is that no captain or first officer, and possibly not the second officer either, should get romantically involved with a member of the crew. You should not get involved with people you command.
My own feeling - which, as I mentioned before, those sillies at Starfleet do not share
- is that no captain or first officer, and possibly not the second officer either, should get romantically involved with a member of the crew. You should not get involved with people you command.
Last edited:
the only lines are between Captain and subordinates and Officers and Enlisted.
This is the area where Starfleet does definitely differ from the way a real military works, IMO. I don't think there is a policy on fraternization, except where it can interfere with a mission or truly demonstrates a negative impact on the functions of a starship or starbase.
But I also believe that--by tradition--most Starfleet officers and enlisted generally don't mingle anyway. It probably happens here and there, like any job with managers and staff, but I think most observe a historic "us versus them" mentality.
But I also believe that--by tradition--most Starfleet officers and enlisted generally don't mingle anyway. It probably happens here and there, like any job with managers and staff, but I think most observe a historic "us versus them" mentality.
I remember I asked a similar question in the Voyager forum, while writing my fanfic Dark Realm, and figured that there didn't seem to be much in the way of officer/enlisted fraternization rulings. Granted that could be that most of the time we only ever heard from officers in the series, but also I recall an episode of Voyager where Neelix openly announced a Lieutenant and a Crewman were recently an item and no one seemed to bat an eye.
The reason I asked my question in the Voyager forum was because a subplot of my fic was the growing feelings between my original character, Lieutenant j.g. Henry Kano, and Crewman Celes Tal.
So based on what I've seen and heard in Voyager canonicity there doesn't appear to be much in the way of rules regarding officer/enlisted fraternization, so I'm inclined to agree with C.E. Evans on this onw.
^ On a ship, nobody is equal to the captain, and nobody is equal to the first officer, either. So, I would say there was plenty of room for trouble there - if for example, Janeway and Chakotay had ever gotten romantically involved (which they apparently never did - not where we could see them, anyway - and I say thank goodness for that).
My own feeling - which, as I mentioned before, those sillies at Starfleet do not share
I agree with you here.
If this sounds as though I've considered this question before, it's because I have. I've ranted about this plenty in the Voyager forum.
however, would disagree.
In Voyager weren't most relationships among officers of equal rank? Seven and Kes were essentially civilians.
Seven and Kes got together?! I change my mind, Voyager is the best Trek EVAR.
worf and ezri, worf can see jadzia in this new daxand thought they maybe he could have his beloved trill back.
That encounter never seemed plausible either given Ezri was a petite Trill. Was Worf simply boasting how "dangerous" Klingon sex was in TNG?
Guinan: "You, you always drink alone. It wouldn't hurt you to seek out a little...companionship."
Worf: "I would require a Klingon woman for...'companionship'. Earth females are too fragile."
Guinan: "Not all of them. There are a few on this ship that would find you... tame."
Worf: [Laughs] "Impossible."
Guinan: "You never know until you try."
Worf: "Then I will never know."
Guinan: "Coward."
Worf: "I was merely concerned for the...safety of my crewmates."
Guinan: "Drink your prune juice." ("Yesterday's Enterprise")
Perhaps Worf controlled himself with how much of his strength he used on Ezri. Maybe he was gentler or perhaps Ezri might be stronger than we give her credit for.
That's why, probably, on Season 3 of Voyager there was an unnamed Lieutenant who was dating an unnamed Crewman and this was announced on Good Morning Voyager and Janeway didn't seem to bat an eyelid at it. This led me to conclude that either no regulation on rank and relationship exist or it wasn't strictly enforced on Voyager giving the ship's unique circumstances.
Romance between officers on the same ship being generally perceived as fine as long as there's a degree of maturity that both parties pursue it with is fine to me. I'd much rather have something that's perhaps less realistic but gives more options for character development and exploration.
That's what I figured too. I also figure as long as their not in the same direct chain of command then it's not too unkosher. That's the assumption I operated under while writing the budding relationship between Crewman Tal Celes (Astrometrics) and my original character, Lieutenant j.g. Henry Kano (Search and Rescue) in my Voyager fanfic...
Somehow I always perceived the captain as an island, and his XO as *the bridge* between him and his crew.
So for me, a possible romance between the first officer and a subordinate would be acceptable as long as the two practice discretion, but for a captain to get involved with his subordinate (especially his XO) is completely inappropriate.
I guess that's why Janeway and Chakotay never crossed that line (even though their mutual attraction was beyond apparent). For example, the XO is supposed to keep his CO in check, challenge his lousy calls, never let him endanger the ship or himself unless 100% necessary etc, but would he still be able to do all that if he was involved with him/her?
Lord knows I agree with you there.
But I often wonder if officer/enlisted relationships are permitted. Serving in the real world military I know they're taboo, but on Voyager at least there appears to be evidence of such relationships, refer to a couple of my previous posts for examples.
^ I hope not, but the Trek PTB really seemed to want to give themselves lots of leeway for romantic plots. Ugh, I just hate it. Really. It's so cheap and easy because they almost never (the only exception I can think of is in the case of Picard and Nella) show any consequences at all.
Edit: They kind of hint at it for Picard and Crusher, though. And good for them.
Edit: They kind of hint at it for Picard and Crusher, though. And good for them.
Similar threads
