• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

In the Hands of the Prophets? Only after dinner and a movie and seven months.

Qonundrum

Just graduated from Camp Ridiculous
Premium Member
Season 1's finale is an intriguing mixture of religious and other themes, involving loosely a succession to Kai from Vedeks Winn and Bareil (both exceedingly well cast, in an episode chock full of first rate acting from all involved - what else is new, to be honest) as well as shoehorning in Keiko's school as a plot point.

The storyline is fairly basic, but that leaves room for a treasure chest of character and complex world building that DS9 had previously engaged with but improves upon no end.

Politicized for villainous means or not, it's still hard to not disagree with Winn - at least early on - as she was actively making concessions to allow a fuller range of classes being told - where is the harm in showing all sides. Was Keiko being the obstreperous one by choice or was she being manipulated? Perhaps season 2 follows up on this, or it's left to the audience, with as much time as they want to think into it. Having said that, she was being obstinate to the point of discomfort. I'll get back to that in a moment.

Science has always described how things work and can be created to a certain extent, or how matter is neither created nor destroyed but reformed in/from other states (per one theory, or two if we bring in the maguffin of "Replicator"), and so on, but never anything more philosophical or anything on a very large scale interface (for those of you techies who dig VLSI, hehe.)

Getting back to that discomfort angle, we've also (as the audience) seen firsthand that these Prophets do exist. As had Sisko and rather more directly and as far back as the premiere episode (whoops!!), even if he's skeptical. But over the year he's less so by the end. So why would he not try to open her mind as well, which almost seems ironic given that's what Keiko wants to do? (That one's easy - there'd be no episode if he convinced her there's more to life than just how the clock goes tick-tock.) Later episodes, if not already established, prove the area inside the wormhole is what amounts to the term "Celestial Temple" as well. Yes, Verteron particles make up some of it. But many could tell you how your house is made from wood and concrete (a mixture of sand, water, and concrete (which has its own ingredients checklist) and does it make any difference? Probably not.

Thankfully, as the episode rolls onward, Winn is definitely showing true colors as a to-be villain and, seriously, Louise Fletcher was inspired casting and is quick to make Winn her own.

The scene in Bareil's gardens (were those on location or on a set, as 90s Trek often had amazing and realistic-looking, nature-like landscapes filmed on a set - must not have been fun to sweet up after filming... I suspect it's a set only due to the sky, but it's a magnificent set.)

As usual, Sisko is quick to prove why he's the best commander of the bunch (before or after DS9 for that matter) so far.

And, of course, more top notch music.

If anything, Kira being quick to throw out the towel regarding Neela (name has no relation to Leela Khaled, I'd presume) after all the work she and the others did to figure out a much more complex mystery just one episode earlier is a huge stretch of disbelief suspension, that even with toast and bacon doesn't make for a balanced meal.

A decent episode to end the season on, my perceived quibbles are few indeed as much elevates a fairly basic plot trope into something more enthralling. A few tweaks could have rendered it better but so much of it is so rock solid right out of the box, with a penchant for character dialogue that only DS9 could put out.

8/10
 
as well as shoehorning in Keiko's school as a plot point.
I'd argue not shoehorned, the school plot point is actually what gets everything rolling. Like The next season finale, this one starts the story in one place and then reveals itself as another tale altogether. "Someone complains about Keiko's school." turns into a conspiracy to murder a much-liked religious figure.

Politicized for villainous means or not, it's still hard to not disagree with Winn
I find it incredibly easy to disagree with her. As Keiko says herself, she doesn't teach religion, that's Winn's job. The temple is just down the Promenade, and the children are welcome to visit it as often as they like.

But many could tell you how your house is made from wood and concrete (a mixture of sand, water, and concrete (which has its own ingredients checklist) and does it make any difference? Probably not.
And what harm comes from teaching about what the house is made from? The school teaches about the house, and if someone else has ideas of what the house means then they can also tell the children that.

It's all moot of course 'cause as you say, Winn has no real interest in the debate at all. She's just an excellent obfuscator, and her plan is something else entirely.

The scene in Bareil's gardens (were those on location or on a set, as 90s Trek often had amazing and realistic-looking, nature-like landscapes filmed on a set - must not have been fun to sweet up after filming... I suspect it's a set only due to the sky, but it's a magnificent set.)
It was shot on location.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLA
The thing about the Bajoran religion is that their gods and their heaven actually exist. It's a matter of perspective whether you consider them gods or aliens. The Bajoran people consider them gods and have every reason to believe they're important to the Prophets and their beliefs are pretty decently validated throughout the series by the Prophets themselves. That should absolutely be respected but not at the cost of discussing the Prophets and the wormhole in a scientific manner. I think Keiko and Winn had their points but neither was completely in the right. Obviously Winn took it to the extreme in the end and blew it but if she wasn't such a power monger things may have turned out differently. I don't think the episode came down on either side of the argument which is understandable after Winn used the situation as an attempt to assassinate her political rival.
 
I love how this show shows the real differences between the Bajorans and The Federation. There's a scene where Kira proposes having two schools on the station. DS9 really took it's premise seriously with this episode.
 
Dukat moved his agenda forward by seducing Winn. A world of trouble would have been avoided if Sisko had employed a similar tactic first, or if he had ordered Bashir or O'Brien to seduce the new Kai.
 
This used to be one of those early episodes that I skipped over and found boring, but now I find it very meaty and interesting just for the dialog alone.

I like it's approach to religion/prime directive by taking on the separation of church and state in an alien culture, vs the "mistaken for a god" trope. The "mistaken for a god" trope usually doesn't have much a discussion afterwards (because it's usually solved at the end) but this episode can a easily cause a debate.

It has a number of layers to it that can make you change your mind on the topic, depending on how you view it. At first Keiko comes off as unnecessarily rude when she refuses call the aliens "prophets".

But then you realize she's right and she's not being rude, just direct. Her job is to teach knowledge- Winn's job is to teach the religious aspects of the wormhole aliens.

The part where she suggests "just don't mention the wormhole at all" you knew she was an outright fanatic/extremist and the whole issue wasn't going to be settled easily.

Interesting episode and so not boring.
 
I have always adored "In The Hands Of The Prophets." A perfect season one ender. My only complaint against it is really against the episodes preceding it, that they fumbled the set-up of O'Brien's assistant by having to recast the actress they introduced in "The Forsaken" and then only using Neela for, what, one line in "Duet"? Had that all been the same actress, if she'd had just a couple more lines in "Duet", she really would have registered much more as "new recurring character" and her betrayal here would have been more impactful.

Also, I love how it slips in some of it's most pointed commentary in this perfect Quark/Odo exchange:

QUARK: There's a Bajoran convention on the station I didn't know about? Thanks Odo. I need to call in more dabo girls
ODO: It's not a convention. They're from an orthodox spiritual order coming to support Vedek Winn's efforts to keep the Bajoran children out of school.
QUARK: Orthodox? In that case, I'll need twice as many dabo girls.
 
This episode makes me wish the writers hadn't washed over the vast cultural differences between the Federation and the Bajorans in the subsequent seasons. The themes in the episode were pretty much abandoned by season 3. Bajoran internal strife, Bajoran "alien-ness". This episode showcases that Starfleet is not in their home turf.
 
Did they though? It's my recollection that differences with Bajor come up again and again. From Starfleet's continued reluctance over Sisko being Emissary, to the reinstatement of the d'jaras...Bajor's primary religion seemed to be at the center of many stories.
 
Did they though? It's my recollection that differences with Bajor come up again and again. From Starfleet's continued reluctance over Sisko being Emissary, to the reinstatement of the d'jaras...Bajor's primary religion seemed to be at the center of many stories.
The show exposed how Starfleet was too humancentric, most if not all of the admirals who showed up in the show were humans with their perspective expected to be the default Starfleet one. The human admirals were uncomfortable with Sisko being the Emissary, perhaps 24th century Earth has moved beyond corporate religious beliefs but its given them a low tolerance level for other alien perspectives. Star Trek 24th century humans are semi bigots IMO.
 
Last edited:
The Emissary stuff was continually addressed but the problems showcased in In The Hands of The Prophets, humanistic Starfleet types having to work side by side with the spiritual and political Bajorans, the Bajoran internal power struggles, all that stuff was abandoned. Bajor seemed a little less complex and dangerous.
 
It's true that as Ben and Nerys became closer and understood each other better the friction wasn't always front and center as much, but there are still multiple eps featuring Bajoran sprituality, poiltics, and internal power struggles.

The Homecoming, The Circle, The Siege, Sanctuary, The Collaborator, Life Support, Destiny, Shakaar, Accession, Rapture, The Darkness and the Light, The Reckoning, Covenant...
 
The thing I loved about In the Hands of the Prophets was it served as a jumping off point for The Circle Trilogy. The episode in and of itself was great, but just seeing Bajoran culture and really digging deep into it in those four episodes made me believe DS9 wasn't your typical Star Trek series.
 
It's true that as Ben and Nerys became closer and understood each other better the friction wasn't always front and center as much, but there are still multiple eps featuring Bajoran sprituality, poiltics, and internal power struggles.

The Homecoming, The Circle, The Siege, Sanctuary, The Collaborator, Life Support, Destiny, Shakaar, Accession, Rapture, The Darkness and the Light, The Reckoning, Covenant...
Yes, there continued to be Bajoran politics episodes, but they dwindled in both number and scope. Mostly they are episodes in which the Bajoran dimension is almost entirely explored through Kira's personality, or it's an interpersonal struggle between Kira and someone else. Indeed, it's difficult to differentiate between Bajoran episodes and Kira episodes. Unfortunately, there were more stories that should have been explored. How is it that the only popular resistance to the Dominion Occupation was a Vedek's suicide? I can't believe the only resistance would have been the DS9 gang, Kira and Leeta being the only Bajorans involved.
 
In the beginning the producers wanted to go more in depth to differentiate and define Bajor and its people. That makes for better anthologized stories whereas when DS9 became more serialized you cannot get that depth. You can't do a episode about a Cardassian orphan living on the very planet that his people oppressed, and dramatize the affects on individuals and government.

I suppose that to do stories about Bajor's internal strife would have seemed too small when you've just established The Dominion as the greatest threat since The Borg.

I'm veering off here but I think one of the best Dominion episodes was The Quickening because it showed the wrath of The Dominion in real and substantial way as it affected people in their day to day life.
 
Last edited:
Dukat moved his agenda forward by seducing Winn. A world of trouble would have been avoided if Sisko had employed a similar tactic first, or if he had ordered Bashir or O'Brien to seduce the new Kai.
But O'Brien is married. Also Kai Winn is a mature extremely intelligent woman, I'm pretty sure that She wouldn't fall for such a ruse.
 
I suppose that to do stories about Bajor's internal strife would have seemed too small when you've just established The Dominion as the greatest threat since The Borg.
Probably, although I think it would have been easier had they established a better Bajoran leader or had used Winn during the 6+1 episode arc. (Winn was a staunch nationalist, of course.)
 
But O'Brien is married. Also Kai Winn is a mature extremely intelligent woman, I'm pretty sure that She wouldn't fall for such a ruse.

Except that she did, with Dukat.

Arguably the worst Person in Star Trek.

(Winn is also arguably the worst person in Star Trek, so maybe they are a good match?)
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top