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In search of a more serious Doctor

Sentience

Lieutenant
Red Shirt
I have always wondered about the necessity or desirability of the quirky or outrageous side of the Doctor Who show, which I believe has been present throughout most of the series. With outlandish aliens which are frequently unrealistic, as well as other aspects of the narrative, can we ever expect a Doctor Who story done with thematic seriousness, one that would take DW further into the modern era and make it more of an adult sci-fi drama?

Personally I would like to see this experimented with, I mean they can spare a season for it now. It might just turn the show around, or give it a new direction for a few years.
 
that's a definite nope there.

Doctor Who has never been and should never been an adult sci-fi series.

You take away makes the Doctor the Doctor.

Plus the fourth doctor sums it up so well
"what's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?"
 
What you have had, and should have, is changes in tone between stories. DW's great strength has always been that you can have a different genre in every story - so what you need in a Doctor is enough range to work well in both lighter and darker tones.
 
take DW further into the modern era and make it more of an adult sci-fi drama?
And that's where you lose me. Considering the franchise's previous attempts at being "adult" such as the Virgin New Adventure novels or Torchwood ended up being laughably embarrassing with their attempts at being edgy for the sake of being edgy, "adult" is the last thing Doctor Who should try to be.
 
outrageous...unrealistic...can we ever expect a Doctor Who story done with thematic seriousness, one that would take DW further into the modern era and make it more of an adult sci-fi drama?
You're missing the point.

Clockwork robots, ridiculous guff about replacing technology with human organs, a big horse stunt and the court of Louis XV is absolute nonsense. Utter bull.

And The Girl In The Fireplace still has an emotional heft that had me welling up on a recent rewatch.
 
If 13 is anything to go by I'd say we need more quirky, outrageous and outlandish. I do think sometimes it would help if the mundane parts of the show were more realistically mounted as the backdrop for those elements.
 
Plus the fourth doctor sums it up so well
"what's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?"
I wish folks would quit trotting out this misquote every time this sort of subject is broached.

The actual line from "Robot" is "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes.".
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can we ever expect a Doctor Who story done with thematic seriousness

That depends on which Doctor era you're referring to. Putting aside the budget limitations of the original series (which lead some to write off entire stories as "silly" or "childish"), there were some very serious stories during the Pertwee, Davison and McCoy eras, where the Doctor took whatever situation he faced with the maturity it demanded, which was not lost on viewers.

Each original series Doctor had his quirks, but even McCoy with his background--delivered and was a part of some flat-out serious stories.

If your observation was more about the NuWho era, there were/are many problems with showrunners beating dead horses with characterization (the actor had much to do with that too, of course), as seen in the Tennant era, where he would lean heavily in the maudlin, "this is the worst thing the universe has ever faced!!!" performances, or going overboard with the "Bb-rrilllliannnttt" / hyperactive boy routine. Although he's the NuWho Doctor I have enjoyed/tolerated the most, some of Tennant's work and the stories were just silly, as if the production finally landed on a rhythm and would not stray from what they believed was working.

Personally I would like to see this experimented with, I mean they can spare a season for it now. It might just turn the show around, or give it a new direction for a few years.

...and what--specifically--would help to turn it around?

Torchwood ended up being laughably embarrassing with their attempts at being edgy for the sake of being edgy, "adult"

Well, Torchwood was a thin concept from the start, with one of the most annoying characters as the series lead in Harkness, so no matter what tone their stories adopted, it was not going to be creatively satisfying.
 
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that's a definite nope there.

Doctor Who has never been and should never been an adult sci-fi series.

You take away makes the Doctor the Doctor.

Plus the fourth doctor sums it up so well
"what's the point of being grown up if you can't act childish?"

Yes. Because season one (1963) dealt with such kid-friendly things like kidnapping, death threats, torture, slavery, rape... season two didn't exactly let up on that, either... But comparing the original makers of the show to later incarnations that turned it into a self-parody and lampoon, let's put that partly aside for a moment:

Fast forward a few years: Season 17 was kid-friendly, but "The Horns of Nimon", derided by UK mass media in 1980, is austere Shakespeare compared to NuWHO from 2006 onward. Especially with the Doctor talking to himself -- herself too, much to the chagrin of some modern day media and critics - Tom's version wasn't any better... or anyone else's. it's all cringe, and why the show is sometimes seen as a joke, just like it was back then. Amazing how times and what's deemed child-friendly have changed... so, yes, the show needs to take itself seriously again. It did in the early days and got popular. Troughton's era, the first comedic one, is still a bag of dour beans compared to Tom Baker's (never mind NuWHO...) but the comedic aspects were comparatively rare between incarnations. The show took itself seriously and the results often speak for themselves.

Plus, the fourth Doctor spouted a one-liner that's been caricatured and flanderzised since. Note the third Doctor said something similar, albeit in a different context when one considers his era...

"What's wrong with being childish? I like being childish."

Except his era is anything but the inane clown show the 4th Doctor's era turned into, and how much of NuWHO has been.
 
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You're missing the point.

Clockwork robots, ridiculous guff about replacing technology with human organs, a big horse stunt and the court of Louis XV is absolute nonsense. Utter bull.

And The Girl In The Fireplace still has an emotional heft that had me welling up on a recent rewatch.

NuWHO is replete with media articles fawning over often the same question, "Which episode makes you cry the most."

And, yeah, no question that the fireplace episode was more designed for a Pavlovian-approved emotional response in hopes one wouldn't think of the reverse-Cybermen process, something Classic WHO knew enough not to do. It's more or less the Doctor Who equivalent of "Spock's Brain". Both stories are superficially enjoyable for their own reasons, but that doesn't make them good just because they emit "teh feelz". Or rather, only the NuWHO story had managed to overcome the absurd-and-in-a-stupid-way ideas.

And that's where you lose me. Considering the franchise's previous attempts at being "adult" such as the Virgin New Adventure novels or Torchwood ended up being laughably embarrassing with their attempts at being edgy for the sake of being edgy, "adult" is the last thing Doctor Who should try to be.

The NAs started okay but quickly lost me as the "adult" tone was superficial - or, rather, what makes something "adult" isn't necessarily writing about naked people running around having coitus with anything that moved (not an uncommon complaint at the time as well and some publications did cite "copulating" as a descriptive adjective as well...), but the depth and complexity of the stories themselves. Now "edgy" qualifies, but it's not the same thing.

But the show managed to do well enough with adult concepts, with even Verity Lambert on DVD commentary saying she made things the way she wanted and for themselves but that didn't stop a lot of people from liking the whole of the presentation. (Per numerous documentaries and commentaries on the DVDs she was involved in, she also convinced TPTB that the Daleks were not bug eye monsters but were an intelligent race with their own backstory... especially as it was the Thals who started the neutronic war, and now - thousands of years later - it's Ian who has to tell the Thals how to fight... kids loved the Daleks' pew pew stuff, but there's enough meat to the story's bone that had adults glued to the set as well and the story treated none of the audience poorly. It's a true family show, well made.)

"Torchwood" started out in the most embarrassing way possible. Among other things, Jack basically takes pride in saying how his lot have no clue how the alien artifacts they use work. So what's the point in knowing how to use them when they're bound to break at some point, thus rendering their special group useless? I spent too much time laughing, then realized this show wasn't meant to be funny and then tuned into something else. I tried a couple other episodes from series 1 but the embarrassing aspects didn't let up, and the making-of specials had to tell the theme of what the stories themselves didn't and/or couldn't and/or couldn't be bothered to do, which only proves the atrocious nature of the storytelling involved. Maybe later seasons actually explore that idea. But I doubt it.

What you have had, and should have, is changes in tone between stories. DW's great strength has always been that you can have a different genre in every story - so what you need in a Doctor is enough range to work well in both lighter and darker tones.


^^this

Every Doctor has had examples of both light and dark and where both worked. :)
 
I have always wondered about the necessity or desirability of the quirky or outrageous side of the Doctor Who show, which I believe has been present throughout most of the series. With outlandish aliens which are frequently unrealistic, as well as other aspects of the narrative, can we ever expect a Doctor Who story done with thematic seriousness, one that would take DW further into the modern era and make it more of an adult sci-fi drama?

I will never understand the urge present in some corners of genre fandom to try to turn everything into a dark drama for adults. Everything doesn't have to be homogenized.
 
Does the audiance in general want a more serious tone? When did the current run of DW hit it's peak during the late Tennant/early smith era perhaps? If that is that case is that the tone the audiance wants?
 
Does the audiance in general want a more serious tone? When did the current run of DW hit it's peak during the late Tennant/early smith era perhaps? If that is that case is that the tone the audiance wants?

It doesn't look like it from the responses here. But I would challenge the makers of DW to try it for one or two episodes, maybe to give the Doctor a more edgy and realistic story to deal with, and see how much it is liked by the audience. Could be a ripper.
 
Season one has some good episodes in a sea of shit, season two is a vast improvement (only one shitty episode), season three is incredible, and season is pure shit. Your mileage may vary.
 
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