Recently I read Immortal Coil, and by the way really enjoyed it. In the book it is stated that in his lab Data has this "crypt" with all the other androids. Besides Lore, Lal and the newly added Juliana there are these 3 failed prototypes. It is said that Data found these prototypes some months before the events of this book. Is this something the author just made up (assuming story-wise the back then yet unknown B-4 was the fourth prototype before Lore)? Or is there an actual novel or comic that tells this particular story?
Immortal Coil: 3 Soong prototypes
- Thread starter Centaur2000
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The existence of the three prototypes was established in TNG: "Inheritance."
The idea that Data had gone back to Omicron Theta and retrieved them was established for the first time in Immortal Coil. In retrospect, though, it's more likely that B-4 was one of the three Juliana mentioned, not an additional one (since "B-4" was a pun on "Before" rather than a literal unit number). It seems unlikely that Soong would've made a fourth she wasn't aware of.
http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/262.htm
The idea that Data had gone back to Omicron Theta and retrieved them was established for the first time in Immortal Coil. In retrospect, though, it's more likely that B-4 was one of the three Juliana mentioned, not an additional one (since "B-4" was a pun on "Before" rather than a literal unit number). It seems unlikely that Soong would've made a fourth she wasn't aware of.
David Mack went into in his Cold Equations novel. That he did in fact make B-4 without Juliana's knowledge because he feared she couldn't handle another lost child. When B-4 did come alive but had limitations, he thought she couldn't handle that and shut him down. With the knowledge he know had, he convinced her to do another attempt, and that became Lore.
That's how I recall it anyway, perhaps @David Mack could chime in?
^Sure, it's possible to reconcile it with the novels. We novelists have plenty of practice at twisting facts and logic to reconcile things. But if you just consider canon content by itself, the simplest and most likely interpretation is that B-4 was one of the three prototypes Juliana mentioned.
But wasn't it revealed that Data had the inert bodies of three prototypes (said to have been collected on a return trip to Omicron Theta), plus Lal and the disassembled Lore, all stored in his lab on the Enterprise by the time of "Immortal Coil"?
I remember emailing Jeffrey Lang when "Nemesis" came out, asking him if the three prototypes were now retro-named B-1, B-2 and B-3.
The early script for "Nemesis" called the new prototype B-9 ("benign") and later revised to B-4 ("before"), but I rather like that it is also a fourth prototype, one that Juliana didn't know about.
You missed the part where I said "if you just consider canon content by itself."
I'm really glad they changed that. If they had stuck with him being B-9 to represent he's Data's benign brother, it would have implied Soong intentionally made Lore evil.
No one missed that. But we're taking TrekLit into this because it's the TrekLit forum. Meaning what was established there has to do with answering OP's question.
It is possible to talk about the same subject from more than one angle at a time. Bringing up one does not interfere with or erase the other, it merely adds perspective.
Yes, it is. That's not the point here though. But when I pointed out there's a part of TrekLit ( again, OP literally asked for something from TrekLit) that went against your statement you kind of ignored that and chose to adhere to established canon so you could still say your statement was right.
So, for the sake of going back to OP's original question where he wanted to know about anything established outside of canon, perhaps we can now accept that David Mack established in a novel that certainly isn't canon yes I know that B-4 was created outside of Juliana's knowledge and clearly stating that three prototypes were created before B-4?
I never said it was "right." We're talking about imaginary, nonexistent things, so there is no "right" or "wrong." I merely said there's an alternative way of looking at it, purely to give perspective.
It seems then, thanks to Christopher's first post, that the three prototypes were mentioned in TNG and that we have to simply deduce that at some point Data went and retrieved them.
As for B-4.... That depends, as Christopher pointed out, what source you want to go by. Nothing in the novels is canon, especially after Picard. They did however establish that at some point after the frist three failed, Soong created a secret lab where he created B-4, the first positronic matrix he stabilized but seemed to lack enhanced cognitive skills. Shutting him down, he then took that knowledge and convinced Juliana to make what she thought would be the fourth attempt and create Lore.
Not looking at the novels, it's more reasonable to asume, as Christopher pointed out, that B-4 is one of the three failed ones.
Plus who knows what Soong was doing in his lab on that planet in “Brothers”, besides creating an emotion chip for Data. There could’ve been another android that they found there. (I know that in the books, Soong had had the android device from EXO III moved there and he had created a new body for himself).
That's a very valid point really. He lived there for decades really. Who knows what he came up with?
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