If you're too old to drive, don't

[Kommander]

Actually, this has more to do with the driver in question being an ass hole than being old, but he was old, so I'm blaming that. He was in his mid- to late 60s, not really that old, but I'm going somewhere with this.

Half an hour ago, I was leaving a department store parking lot. Thanks to the popularity of minivans and SUVs, and me in my little Honda Civic, most times I have a much bigger vehicle on either side. The only option when backing out of a space is to do it slowly and hope the people driving in the isle are paying attention.

So, I've backed halfway out of the space, and this guy in an SUV slams on his brakes and stops about ten feet short of my car. If you have to slam on your brakes to avoid a car pulling out of a space in a parking lot, you're going way too fast.

He stays where he's at for a few seconds, so i continue backing out of the space. He lifts his foot off the brake and begins moving forward, pretty much saying "Pull back into the space or I'll hit you." Since he didn't give me an option, I put my car in drive and pull back into the space. I also turn around in my seat and flip him off for good measure. When he sees my hand and the finger I'm displaying proudly, he stops, blocking me in the space, and gets out of his car.

So, I also get out of my car. If he's about to do something stupid, I don't want to be trapped.

"I had the right-of-way, ass hole," he said.

"Doesn't matter," I replied, "I was halfway out of my space, and would have been all the way out if you weren't going 40. Also, you didn't continue on your way until I started moving again even though I gave you the chance. Regardless of who had the right-of-way, you failed to yield." I don't know if that's exactly true or not, but it made enough sense to justify the situation.

"You young people need to learn some respect, " he said, "I'm carrying a concealed weapon, so you should shut up and get back in your car." Wait, what!

"I know you're upset," I said, "so I'll ignore that threat for now. However, are you really going to draw your weapon? Are you really going to risk having your CCW revoked and going to jail just because some smart-ass kid is giving you a hard time? If so, are you sure you can draw your weapon and fire before I take your gun from you and give you the beating of your life?" I'm not usually this ballsy when someone threatens my life, but I could tell he was just trying to scare me. If he was packing, he was planning on keeping his gun in his holster. He stood there silently. "That's what I thought. Now, I would suggest that you shut up and get back in your car before I call the police.

"You need to learn some respect," he said as he walked back toward his car.

"Respect is earned, not given freely," I said, "Have a nice day." I smiled sarcasticly and waved as he drove off.

Only in Detroit...

As I was typing this post, I changed my mind and called the police. I didn't get his plate number, but I gave them a description of the man, the woman in his pasengar seat, his vehicle, and told them what happened. I believe in giving people a second chance, but someone that is going to make threats every chance they get shouldn't have a CCW.

 

[Captain X]

I agree fully about him threatening you with his weapon; that's just something you don't do, and frankly it makes him no better than some gang member threatening someone with their gun for "respect". That really pisses me off and I'm a big supporter of the right to carry, but that's a fucking weapon you use for your defense when your life is threatened, not something you fucking use to threaten other people with.

 

[Kommander]

^ I'm also a big supporter of gun rights, but I'm also a big supporter of being able to run to the store without being threatened. I know it's Detroit, but still...

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Highway traffic laws don't apply in parking lots or on private property generally. There's no official right of way on private property.

You did have a responsibility to make sure the way was clear before you pulled out. With large vehicles on either side I realize that's difficult, but hopefully you made the effort.

Buddy going fast enough to have to slam on the brakes, yes he was going too fast for safety, but again, there's actually no speed limit on private property. If there was an accident, if it went beyond your insurance companies and into court, it would be a pretty complicated set of arguements over who was being more at fault.

As far as threatening you with his concealed weapon, that was a felony in itself, it was also the mark of a very small man, and it's the sort of thing that gives gun owners a bad name. He's one of the reasons CCW's should be harder to get. Assuming he wasn't just bluffing.

 

[Kommander]

Highway traffic laws don't apply in parking lots or on private property generally. There's no official right of way on private property.

It depends on the state. I don't know what Michigan Law says. Insurance is no-fault, but as to "who gets the ticket," I don't know. In California, however, had he hit me, I would have been at fault.

You did have a responsibility to make sure the way was clear before you pulled out. With large vehicles on either side I realize that's difficult, but hopefully you made the effort.

When view is obstructed by buildings, other vehicles, shrubs, et cetera; the correct thing to do is to sound the horn and proceed very slowly. I did the slow part, didn't bother with the horn because most people think of it as an audio version of giving the finger and nothing else.

Buddy going fast enough to have to slam on the brakes, yes he was going too fast for safety, but again, there's actually no speed limit on private property. If there was an accident, if it went beyond your insurance companies and into court, it would be a pretty complicated set of arguements over who was being more at fault.

He wasn't really in danger of hitting me initially. He had plenty of stopping distance. I think he only slammed on his brakes to show irritation. As far as inching forward to force me back into the space or get hit, he was being a dick. Anyway, reguardless of right-of-way, failure to yield takes precedence in certain circumstances.

As far as threatening you with his concealed weapon, that was a felony in itself, it was also the mark of a very small man, and it's the sort of thing that gives gun owners a bad name. He's one of the reasons CCW's should be harder to get. Assuming he wasn't just bluffing.

He was bluffing, and I give it 50/50 on whether or not he really was carrying. I'm guessing, in his mind, it was justifiable because I'm 40 years younger than him and I needed a lesson in respecting others, and instilling a little fear is a good way to teach it. This is why I didn't immediately call the police; I'm a little too understanding sometimes.

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

You know, it would have simply been the polite thing for him to let you back out and go. What an ass.

 

[Mallory]

I'm too old to drive.

I do it anyway

I like going slow down on ramps (just to bug Trekker), driving for miles with my turn signal on, going the speed limit in the fast lane, all kinds of things. Bwahahahahaha!

 

[Lookingglassman]

This fool was stupid. Once he had threatened me I would have beat his butt. When the police came I would have told them he threatened to kill me with a concealed weapon and I was defending myself.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

"I'm carrying a concealed weapon, so you should shut up and get back in your car."

You met Apostle in Detroit???!?!?!

 

[Garrovick]

Another young person and old drivers post again....

But, I agree, old people shouldn't drive.

That means we need public transportation paid for by young people being taxed. Our capitol city and the county it's in, raised vehicle taxes to do just that.

But the the second leading cause of death for those under 25 is automobile accidents.

 

[Kommander]

I'm too old to drive.

I do it anyway

I like going slow down on ramps (just to bug Trekker), driving for miles with my turn signal on, going the speed limit in the fast lane, all kinds of things. Bwahahahahaha!

There's nothing wrong with doing things just to irritate Trekker4747

This fool was stupid. Once he had threatened me I would have beat his butt. When the police came I would have told them he threatened to kill me with a concealed weapon and I was defending myself.

It wasn't worth it. Had he actually reached for a weapon I was close enough that I could have tackled him before he got it out of the holster. As long as he was just making idle threats I was willing to keep my boot firmly on the ground instead of up his ass.

"I'm carrying a concealed weapon, so you should shut up and get back in your car."

You met Apostle in Detroit???!?!?!

Despite his history here, I'm sure apostle83 has a lot more sense than that.

Another young person and old drivers post again....

But, I agree, old people shouldn't drive.

That means we need public transportation paid for by young people being taxed. Our capitol city and the county it's in, raised vehicle taxes to do just that.

But the the second leading cause of death for those under 25 is automobile accidents.

He wasn't quite that old. I just went off on old people because he had that "Respect your elders, you fucking kid!" attitude. I hate that. I understand that wisdom comes with experience, but living six decades doesn't automatically make one King of the Fucking Universe. I try to show everyone some amount of respect, regardless of age. However, I don't respect ass holes of any age.

And yeah, I'm not going to claim old people are the only people that shouldn't drive. There are a lot of people of all ages, especially under 25 that should have their licenses taken away.

 

[jkladis]

Age and driving should be case by case by means of more regular driver evaluations. There are 65 year old individuals that are too far gone and then there are 85 year old sharp sticks.

I've flown with an 82 year old flight instructor, retired AA captain, that would put most of his fellow senior citizens to shame.

 

[Kelso]

You both sound like assholes to me. You guys deserve each other.

 

[JuanBolio]

God damn it, Kommander! Why is it I get to be in the car with you for shitty things like you driving into frozen swamps, but when something completely awesome and righteous happens I'm 2,000 miles away?!

Good on you for putting him in his place. Respect is earned indeed. The cops you called will probably never find him or do anything, but I bet he's losing sleep tonight knowing he's being universally vilified on a Star Trek internet message board.

JuanBolio approves of putting trigger-happy old people in their place.

There are a lot of people of all ages, especially under 25 that should have their licenses taken away.

I'd like to take this most ironic opportunity to point out that Kommander is 24...

 

[Kommander]

God damn it, Kommander! Why is it I get to be in the car with you for shitty things like you driving into frozen swamps, but when something completely awesome and righteous happens I'm 2,000 miles away?!

You bring out the worst in me, I guess. And the swamp shouldn't have ran out in the road right in front of me like it did!

There are a lot of people of all ages, especially under 25 that should have their licenses taken away.

I'd like to take this most ironic opportunity to point out that Kommander is 24...

So... I can only criticize people younger than myself? I just said I don't buy into that "respect your elders" bullshit; I'm not going to turn around and do it to others.

 

[John Picard]

Actually, this has more to do with the driver in question being an ass hole than being old, but he was old, so I'm blaming that. He was in his mid- to late 60s, not really that old, but I'm going somewhere with this.

Half an hour ago, I was leaving a department store parking lot. Thanks to the popularity of minivans and SUVs, and me in my little Honda Civic, most times I have a much bigger vehicle on either side. The only option when backing out of a space is to do it slowly and hope the people driving in the isle are paying attention.

So, I've backed halfway out of the space, and this guy in an SUV slams on his brakes and stops about ten feet short of my car. If you have to slam on your brakes to avoid a car pulling out of a space in a parking lot, you're going way too fast.

He stays where he's at for a few seconds, so i continue backing out of the space. He lifts his foot off the brake and begins moving forward, pretty much saying "Pull back into the space or I'll hit you." Since he didn't give me an option, I put my car in drive and pull back into the space. I also turn around in my seat and flip him off for good measure. When he sees my hand and the finger I'm displaying proudly, he stops, blocking me in the space, and gets out of his car.

So, I also get out of my car. If he's about to do something stupid, I don't want to be trapped.

"I had the right-of-way, ass hole," he said.

"Doesn't matter," I replied, "I was halfway out of my space, and would have been all the way out if you weren't going 40. Also, you didn't continue on your way until I started moving again even though I gave you the chance. Regardless of who had the right-of-way, you failed to yield." I don't know if that's exactly true or not, but it made enough sense to justify the situation.

"You young people need to learn some respect, " he said, "I'm carrying a concealed weapon, so you should shut up and get back in your car." Wait, what!

"I know you're upset," I said, "so I'll ignore that threat for now. However, are you really going to draw your weapon? Are you really going to risk having your CCW revoked and going to jail just because some smart-ass kid is giving you a hard time? If so, are you sure you can draw your weapon and fire before I take your gun from you and give you the beating of your life?" I'm not usually this ballsy when someone threatens my life, but I could tell he was just trying to scare me. If he was packing, he was planning on keeping his gun in his holster. He stood there silently. "That's what I thought. Now, I would suggest that you shut up and get back in your car before I call the police.

"You need to learn some respect," he said as he walked back toward his car.

"Respect is earned, not given freely," I said, "Have a nice day." I smiled sarcasticly and waved as he drove off.

Only in Detroit...

As I was typing this post, I changed my mind and called the police. I didn't get his plate number, but I gave them a description of the man, the woman in his pasengar seat, his vehicle, and told them what happened. I believe in giving people a second chance, but someone that is going to make threats every chance they get shouldn't have a CCW.

Old people and their demand for respect They use that as a means to bully and intimidate people, especially old men. My parents are of the generation where they used that on me when I was a child and when I got older it took me a while to clue in that a lot of older people are idiots.

Now, as far as parking lots, I used to stop if someone was coming down the aisle as I am backing out, but no more. There's no reason some courtesy can be exercised (and no, the old man didn't have the right of way). I back out and when another vehicle comes down, I don't stop. If that person slams on the brakes, I keep coming. I've had them try to intimidate me by creeping forward, which irks me even more. So, even if I have enough room to cut the wheel and pull forward, I continue in reverse until my vehicle is aligned with the aisle. Sometimes, for good measure, I'll take my time shifting from reverse to drive.

You just need to know how to call these clowns out on their bullshit when they try to intimidate you with their vehicles. My truck is paid for and looks like a truck, whereas most of these people would shit kittens if their precious car got scratched, or worse.

 

[Michael Chris]

I disagree that respect must be earned. All people should be treated with respect, even our enemies.

 

[CaptainStoner]

"Respect is earned, not given freely," I said, "Have a nice day." I smiled sarcasticly and waved as he drove off.

I disagree with this credo. It sure causes a lot of problems. There is a level of respect which should be a given. Higher levels are earned, but basic respect, no, that should be automatic.

A flip of the bird is pretty standard for a cut-off. This old man clearly had less of the respect he was talking about than you. Flipping him off was an escalator, but then he gets out, calls you an asshole, and then says he has a gun. Hugely disproportionate escalation. Your application of logic then took some air out of the situation.

But the old man was right, people should have some common respect, but I doubt he was thinking about himself when he said it.

 

[Kommander]

I disagree with this credo. It sure causes a lot of problems. There is a level of respect which should be a given. Higher levels are earned, but basic respect, no, that should be automatic.

Yes, I agree. Respect insofar as "You are also a human, therefore I should show you come courtesy" should be given freely and only taken away if the other person demonstrates they don't deserve it. I was talking about the higher levels of respect.

 

[pookha]

Highway traffic laws don't apply in parking lots or on private property generally. There's no official right of way on private property.

You did have a responsibility to make sure the way was clear before you pulled out. With large vehicles on either side I realize that's difficult, but hopefully you made the effort.

Buddy going fast enough to have to slam on the brakes, yes he was going too fast for safety, but again, there's actually no speed limit on private property. If there was an accident, if it went beyond your insurance companies and into court, it would be a pretty complicated set of arguements over who was being more at fault.

As far as threatening you with his concealed weapon, that was a felony in itself, it was also the mark of a very small man, and it's the sort of thing that gives gun owners a bad name. He's one of the reasons CCW's should be harder to get. Assuming he wasn't just bluffing.

a good insurance investigator would have been able to tell how fast he was going by the damage to the car.
and a lot of private lots do have posted speed limits.
especially malls and large shopping areas.

plus even posted one would be expected to travel at a reasonable amount of speed considering vehichles would be backing out and the amount of pedastrain traffic.