If not Space Seed...

[Jedi Marso]

Stemming from a discussion in another thread...

Harve Bennett claimed that they screened every episode of TOS in order to find a plot point or what not to expand on and blow up into STII. The episode they ultimately chose was Space Seed, and what blossomed out of that was The Wrath of Khan.

So say for argument's sake that the Space Seed episode never happened, and we know that TMP was basically a rehash of "The Changeling." Discounting those two episodes, which episode of TOS would YOU have chosen as a springboard for Star Trek II, and why? What sort of story would you derive from it?

 

[The Wormhole]

Assuming the goal was still to make an action movie, I was going to suggest The Doomsday Machine, though in broad strokes it could be too similar to TMP anyway. Maybe Arena? After all, in terms of general popularity, "the one with the lizard man" is an episode the general public has always been aware of, making it a safe choice to base a movie around.

 

[BK613]

"Errand of Mercy" or "Day of the Dove" maybe, with Colicos or Ansara reprising their role.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I would have loved to have seen Ansara as a full-blooded, TOS-era John M. Ford style Klingon in a movie!

By that time, however, Colicos was the buffoonish Baltar, forever dampening his ability to carry off a menacing Klingon with the fans. (Or at least this fan.)

 

[James Cole]

So say for argument's sake that the Space Seed episode never happened, and we know that TMP was basically a rehash of "The Changeling." Discounting those two episodes, which episode of TOS would YOU have chosen as a springboard for Star Trek II, and why? What sort of story would you derive from it?

"Mirror, Mirror" -- a doppelganger invasion, a la DC Comics Star Trek run set between TSFS and TVH...

 

[Elias Vaughn]

Star Trek II: McCoy's Brain

 

[Paul755]

Maybe some kind of sequel to “The Enterprise Incident” with the Romulans.

 

[Iamnotspock]

By that time, however, Colicos was the buffoonish Baltar, forever dampening his ability to carry off a menacing Klingon with the fans. (Or at least this fan.)

Reverend Jim made a pretty menacing Klingon.

Perhaps they could have done something with the Galactic Barrier, similar to what Star Trek Continues did for its finale.

 

[drt]

Reverend Jim made a pretty menacing Klingon.

Yeah, I remember people complaining about the casting of goofy comedic actor Lloyd back in the day. Presumably the heavy Klingon makeup would have helped Colicos similarly.

 

[M'Sharak]

goofy comedic actor Lloyd

Even then, you'd think they would have noticed that half his roles to date had been anything but goofy or comedic.

 

[Oddish]

Catspaw! Invasion of the Black Cats!
Or maybe... tribbles!

More serious, I think the Mirror Universe had potential... it was good enough that it returned with three orher Treks.

 

[Metryq]

The difference between ST:TMP and TWOK is that TMP was a "remake" of the same story, while TWOK was a continuation of the story. Star Trek Continues did a couple sequels, following up "Who Mourns for Adonais?" and "Mirror, Mirror." The problem with those sequels is that they could not stand alone. While familiarity with "Space Seed" would make TWOK more enjoyable, it was not necessary. And the allegory in TWOK also gave it independent standing.

(The best episode of STC was "The White Iris," although that story also required a familiarity with TOS.)

The key problem with a sequel—with too many sequels, really—is that it must be more than simply "more of the same." For example, Tron Legacy was really more of a reboot than a sequel, and a very poor reboot at that. I was surprised that Lisberger's name was on it, as the story came across as though the writer were unfamiliar with the original and the allegory behind it. The reboot "spoofed" the original more than it continued or succeeded it.

Star Trek II also needed to appeal to a general audience, not simply Star Trek fans. That really narrows down the pickings. Perhaps a follow up to "For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky"? The allegory of that one offered more fertile ground to explore—that the reality of the world is not what one believes. This dates back to the allegory of the cave in Plato's Republic to more modern treatments, like The Matrix, Tron, books like James P. Hogan's Endgame Enigma or Heinlein's Orphans of the Sky, perhaps the initial inspiration for the TOS episode. ("Orphans" was alluded to in the later Heinlein novel Time Enough For Love—descendants of the survivors who escaped had been found, along with the derelict starship many lightyears away.)

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Reverend Jim made a pretty menacing Klingon.

Okay, but when I saw it in the theater, his voice took me out of the movie. He was too familiar as the perpetually dazed guy on Taxi.

A similar thing happened in The Empire Strikes Back. Yoda's voice might be iconic now, but in that first theatrical viewing, he sounded a lot like Fozzie.

The long-circulated story is that Leonard Nimoy never wanted Christopher Lloyd for ST III. He wanted his friend Edward Olmos. But Paramount had given Lloyd a pay-or-play contract to keep him on Taxi another year, and it was "times up." They didn't want to pay Lloyd a bunch of money for nothing, so they stuck him in ST III. It worked out well enough I guess.

 

[Metryq]

Lloyd established his ability to be scary, and amped it up two years later in the Amazing Stories episode "Go To The Head Of The Class" as the English teacher from Hell.

 

[Commishsleer]

Maybe some kind of sequel to “The Enterprise Incident” with the Romulans.

There were two Star Trek novels about that.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The trick of course is finding a good villain with a reason to challenge Kirk.
Kang and Kor are solid adversaries but they leave on "good terms" with Kirk
Koloth is a non started for me. Can't take him seriously. His look-a-like Trelane hates Kirk, but not the type of villain needed.
The Romulan Commander has good reason to hate Kirk and Spock And even a good reason to be snooping around Genesis.

 

[mb22]

A similar thing happened in The Empire Strikes Back. Yoda's voice might be iconic now, but in that first theatrical viewing, he sounded a lot like Fozzie.

He sounded more like Grover to me.

 

[Oddish]

He sounded more like Grover to me

Yoda wasn't really like either muppet, but more Grover than Fozzie.

 

[somebuddyX]

Part of me wants to say time travel and not "The City on the Edge of Forever" but in the style of "Assignment Earth" and have them time travel to 1982 on a mission again, perhaps with Gary Seven or just not even mention him. But I'm trying to figure out if location shooting is more or less expensive to shoot, so maybe it would be cost prohibitive for their budget.
Otherwise my mind went to my favourite episode "A Private Little War" which is again location shooting and again possibly cost prohibitive. I think though there's something to the idea of doing another Enterprise meddles in a planet's internal affairs episode and there's a Klingon villain Kirk can punch in the face.

 

[herofhyrule]

Part of me wants to say time travel and not "The City on the Edge of Forever" but in the style of "Assignment Earth" and have them time travel to 1982 on a mission again, perhaps with Gary Seven or just not even mention him. But I'm trying to figure out if location shooting is more or less expensive to shoot, so maybe it would be cost prohibitive for their budget.
Otherwise my mind went to my favourite episode "A Private Little War" which is again location shooting and again possibly cost prohibitive. I think though there's something to the idea of doing another Enterprise meddles in a planet's internal affairs episode and there's a Klingon villain Kirk can punch in the face.

I'd imagine leaving the studio and just walking around the nearest downtown area with a camera is quite cheap as long as you don't close anywhere off.