Exactly, we could have had the same actors but radically different characters.
If not for Caretaker, would DS9 have been Voyager's home base?
- Thread starter Guy Gardener
- Start date
Poor Ethan would have been stuck back in Ferengi Makeup.
Jennifer a love interest for Jake or Nog?
And Jeri? I want her as the bad guy.
Jennifer a love interest for Jake or Nog?
And Jeri? I want her as the bad guy.
Now that I think on it, we still could have had Neelix, Kes, and Seven. Tallaxians and Ocampans could just as easily been made Gamma Quadrant species instead of Delta Quadrant ones. The Borg, also, could have been brought onto the show in a limited way, thereby giving them Seven.
Wouldn't it have been hard for them to try to explore the Gamma Quadrant since the wormhole basically dumped you into the Dominions backyard? They would have had a hell of a time getting through or around them anytime they needed to get back for supplies.
I always figured Voyager operated out of Earths star bases, meaning they get a mission for a few weeks and then go back to earth and rest up for the next short mission. The ship was basically designed for short missions, as the constant repairs during the series demonstrated. It could hunt down criminals, rogue vessels , ferry officials to events and other starships etc. Kinda like a tricked out Hummer. it could take a beating or give one, or just give you a smooth ride.
I always figured Voyager operated out of Earths star bases, meaning they get a mission for a few weeks and then go back to earth and rest up for the next short mission. The ship was basically designed for short missions, as the constant repairs during the series demonstrated. It could hunt down criminals, rogue vessels , ferry officials to events and other starships etc. Kinda like a tricked out Hummer. it could take a beating or give one, or just give you a smooth ride.
And those were it's operating parameters before the Federation met the Dominion.
War doesn't leave room for idle assets.
Earth was too far from the fray.
The Dominion or their ALLIES would NEVER have been able to strike Earth that no sizable federation fleet needed to be kept in reserve there twiddling their thumbs.
War doesn't leave room for idle assets.
Earth was too far from the fray.
The Dominion or their ALLIES would NEVER have been able to strike Earth that no sizable federation fleet needed to be kept in reserve there twiddling their thumbs.
The Breen attacked San Francisco.
The Wormhole actually dumped people out in the Gamma Quadrant just outside Dominion terrority. Voyager could still have explored the non-Dominion parts of the Gamma Quadrant until the war started.
Why do you think I made some words larger than others?
You need to adjust your sarcasimeter.
I don't know, what gave Voyager all of it's flare was that they were out in the middle of BFG, no backup, no friends, on the raggedy edge. It might have been fun if they were in the Alpha quad, they could interact with both the Enterprise crew and DS9, but it would have ended up just like TNG with different characters. I like the fact that the entire series was goal orientated (Lets Get Home) the episodes had a progression on that journey, unlike TNG which had a lot of random episodes with no relation to one another.
How wasn't Voyager just TNG with other characters?
And "other characters" is being generous.
And "other characters" is being generous.
Some of Trek's best characters actually. Even many who don't believe the show kept to it's premise still like the characters.
Like I stated before, They had one major problem, being some twenty years away from the alpha quad at maximum warp-not throwing in delays for resupply and hostile species- with no allies or Starfleet to fall back on. Yes they did -boldly go- in the same sense as TNG, but the circumstances were vastly different.
On the different characters part, yes Voyager lacked the charisma of the Enterprises crew at first, but as the show progressed they really came into there own. I still prefer the NCC-1701D crew, but Voyager comes in a close second.
On the different characters part, yes Voyager lacked the charisma of the Enterprises crew at first, but as the show progressed they really came into there own. I still prefer the NCC-1701D crew, but Voyager comes in a close second.
I tried watching Enterprise but after a few episodes when I realized Porthos was my favorite character gave it up as a bad job. The Voyager characters managed to reel me in from the start. Having one of the best opening episodes in "Caretaker" probably helped with that.
As I recall, Voyager was chosen to hunt down Maquis because it had the tactical power and maneuverability to work well in the badlands. So long as that mission remained, I suspect that Voyager would return to DS9 from time to time.
The Enterprise was also assigned at some point to the same region of space, and visited DS9 as well as other starbases which were presumably in the area. The Enterprise was reassigned sectors a number of times, so it stands to reason that Voyager might have been reassigned to other sectors if the need arose.
Voyager would have likely participated in the Dominion War if it had stayed in the Delta Quadrant.
As for the change in characters, the Maquis crew members would have likely end up destroyed by the Dominion (unless you consider that the Val Jean could be sucked up by the caretaker, but not Voyager.. that might be interesting)
Janeway might have turned out to be a competant captain if she were closer to Starfleet. I think her character originally had potential to go somewhere but ultimately failed miserably. If she had the guidance of other captains and admirals, she could have turned out a lot better.
Kim's progress would have been interesting to see. I always thought he was the most interesting character on the show, but he never got much to do, or room to grow. A lot of potential for him there.
Paris would still be in New Zealand, and I'm okay with that. I liked him as a friend to Harry, and as the pilot, but he never really sold the "antique americana" thing fully, it always felt like something they tacked onto him. His medic aspect is pretty much worthless. He didn't add much to the show.
The Doctor would have likely remained deactivated most of the time, and therefore would never learn to sing Opera, which would be a vast improvement.
And of course, Neelix and Kes would be stuck in the Delta Quadrant, though if the maquis was sucked in by the caretaker, they could annoy Chakotay for 7 years, and I wouldn't be bothered by that at all.
Seven would have remained a drone, which I could either take and leave. Seven wasn't horrible, but I didn't think she was awesome either. Icheb on the other hand, was pretty cool. Too bad for him.
The rest of the crew (the Maquis people) were pretty bland and uninteresting, and I think that's the basis of why Voyager fell so flat as compared to the other trek series (though, I suppose Enterprise had some pretty bland characters too).
When people think Star Trek, they think of "exploring the unknown" as an essential element of Trek, and I agree with that, but it is very possible to overdo it, and the show creators really packed it on with Enterprise, which is ultimate what killed the franchise.
The best episodes of Trek are not about "boldly going" anywhere.
TOS: City on the Edge of Forever - the most critically acclaimed TOS episode: Kirk returns to 1920's Earth. This isn't "New worlds and civilizations" this is old world.
TNG: Best of Both Worlds - a fan favorite: The crew fights the Borg in Federation space, even returning to Earth in the process. No new worlds here, and even the borg we had seen before.
TNG: Yesterday's Enterprise - a fan favorite: The reprecussions of the Enterprise-C travelling forward in time in Federation space. The crew fights the klingons. No new worlds, no new civilizations.
DS9: The Visitor - a universally accliamed episode: Jake Sisko spends an alternate lifetime in an attempt to rescue his father.. a lot of it spent on DS9 or Earth or the Defiant. No new worlds, no new civilizations.
DS9: In the Pale Moonlight - a fan favorite episode: The moral consequences of espionage in Starfleet. The Romulans are involved. No new worlds, no new civilizations here either.
Obviously, exploration and new worlds are an integral part of Star Trek, the dominion, breen, and cardassians are all excellent examples of new civilizations that were discovered in later Trek, but these are all just a means to tell a story about the human condition. Star Trek works best when it explores humanity, and doesn't work when you're changing course to scan down a class 2 nebula.
I think a major reason why I dislike Voyager is because the writers spent a lot of time on the "how" and "what" of the plotlines. (how many times did Borg Nanoprobes solve the episode's problem?) They didn't spend enough time in the "who".. but when they did, Voyager really did work well. In particular VOY: Imperfection is an example of a Voyager episode done right.
The Enterprise was also assigned at some point to the same region of space, and visited DS9 as well as other starbases which were presumably in the area. The Enterprise was reassigned sectors a number of times, so it stands to reason that Voyager might have been reassigned to other sectors if the need arose.
Voyager would have likely participated in the Dominion War if it had stayed in the Delta Quadrant.
As for the change in characters, the Maquis crew members would have likely end up destroyed by the Dominion (unless you consider that the Val Jean could be sucked up by the caretaker, but not Voyager.. that might be interesting)
Janeway might have turned out to be a competant captain if she were closer to Starfleet. I think her character originally had potential to go somewhere but ultimately failed miserably. If she had the guidance of other captains and admirals, she could have turned out a lot better.
Kim's progress would have been interesting to see. I always thought he was the most interesting character on the show, but he never got much to do, or room to grow. A lot of potential for him there.
Paris would still be in New Zealand, and I'm okay with that. I liked him as a friend to Harry, and as the pilot, but he never really sold the "antique americana" thing fully, it always felt like something they tacked onto him. His medic aspect is pretty much worthless. He didn't add much to the show.
The Doctor would have likely remained deactivated most of the time, and therefore would never learn to sing Opera, which would be a vast improvement.
And of course, Neelix and Kes would be stuck in the Delta Quadrant, though if the maquis was sucked in by the caretaker, they could annoy Chakotay for 7 years, and I wouldn't be bothered by that at all.
Seven would have remained a drone, which I could either take and leave. Seven wasn't horrible, but I didn't think she was awesome either. Icheb on the other hand, was pretty cool. Too bad for him.
The rest of the crew (the Maquis people) were pretty bland and uninteresting, and I think that's the basis of why Voyager fell so flat as compared to the other trek series (though, I suppose Enterprise had some pretty bland characters too).
When people think Star Trek, they think of "exploring the unknown" as an essential element of Trek, and I agree with that, but it is very possible to overdo it, and the show creators really packed it on with Enterprise, which is ultimate what killed the franchise.
The best episodes of Trek are not about "boldly going" anywhere.
TOS: City on the Edge of Forever - the most critically acclaimed TOS episode: Kirk returns to 1920's Earth. This isn't "New worlds and civilizations" this is old world.
TNG: Best of Both Worlds - a fan favorite: The crew fights the Borg in Federation space, even returning to Earth in the process. No new worlds here, and even the borg we had seen before.
TNG: Yesterday's Enterprise - a fan favorite: The reprecussions of the Enterprise-C travelling forward in time in Federation space. The crew fights the klingons. No new worlds, no new civilizations.
DS9: The Visitor - a universally accliamed episode: Jake Sisko spends an alternate lifetime in an attempt to rescue his father.. a lot of it spent on DS9 or Earth or the Defiant. No new worlds, no new civilizations.
DS9: In the Pale Moonlight - a fan favorite episode: The moral consequences of espionage in Starfleet. The Romulans are involved. No new worlds, no new civilizations here either.
Obviously, exploration and new worlds are an integral part of Star Trek, the dominion, breen, and cardassians are all excellent examples of new civilizations that were discovered in later Trek, but these are all just a means to tell a story about the human condition. Star Trek works best when it explores humanity, and doesn't work when you're changing course to scan down a class 2 nebula.
I think a major reason why I dislike Voyager is because the writers spent a lot of time on the "how" and "what" of the plotlines. (how many times did Borg Nanoprobes solve the episode's problem?) They didn't spend enough time in the "who".. but when they did, Voyager really did work well. In particular VOY: Imperfection is an example of a Voyager episode done right.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I've always thought that the franchise was bogged down in the whole "boldly going" theme. The best episodes, in my opinion, have always been either the diplomatic or military themed ones (ones that don't involve charting star clusters or mapping anomalies).
TOS - Journey to Babel - One of my favorite TOS episodes, focuses on a trip to a diplomatic conference amongst Federation members and an attempt to disrupt that conference. No exploring of unknown space here.
TNG - Best of Both Worlds - Focuses on a military threat to the Federation. No exploring here either.
DS9 - In the Pale Moonlight - Focuses on internal Federation operations and a well-established "villian" alien race. No exploring here.
VOY - Scorpion - Once again, focuses on a well-known "villian" alien race and a military threat. Some exploring, in that a new "villian" alien race is introduced, but little exploring elsewise.
ENT - United - Shows the first stirrings of the formation of the Federation. Enterprise was its best when it dealt with Federation building (The Andorian Incident, Zero Hour, The Forge, Awakening, Kir'shara, Babel One, United, The Aenar). All alien races shown here are well-established, little exploring.
However, given that the best episodes don't involve "boldly going where no one has gone before," the producers have always seemed determined to focus the shows on that aspect come hell or high water. Like Klaitu said, it's what ultimately killed Enterprise. That show should have focused squarely on missions such as those above. However, they spent almost the entire first two seasons, and a good part of the third as well, exploring the unknown.
Voyager wasn't boldly going anywhere but home, and in Kims' case it's not too great an exaggeration to claim that he was on task to get back to his mommy's tit.
Which means that they running away from the unknown and the frontier, deeply devoted to the sensible and comfortable.
How angry were they when making this show that the name Odyssey had already been taken? In fact it had been take so close to the wind up to voyager's pitch meeting that I might ask if the DS9 people were fucking with the voyager people from the get go?
Which means that they running away from the unknown and the frontier, deeply devoted to the sensible and comfortable.
How angry were they when making this show that the name Odyssey had already been taken? In fact it had been take so close to the wind up to voyager's pitch meeting that I might ask if the DS9 people were fucking with the voyager people from the get go?
Who can blame him? Those things are awesome!
