I don't see Nimoy footage in The Captains

[willa6276m]

I've frequently read that Shatner used footage of Nimoy at a convention without his permission in the documentary The Captains.

However, I've watched The Captains twice looked for this alleged Nimoy footage and haven't seen any.

Where is this supposed Nimoy footage? Does someone have a timestamp? A screen capture? Anything? I see no evidence of Nimoy footage in The Captains.

 

[Tosk]

"Apparently" the footage went unused in the final edit. But filming it in the first place when Nimoy had already said no was supposedly what created the rift.

 

[willa6276m]

"Apparently" the footage went unused in the final edit. But filming it in the first place when Nimoy had already said no was supposedly what created the rift.

Is there an earlier version of The Captains online that includes the alleged footage?

It bugs me that people keep repeating this story when there doesn't seem to be evidence of it.

 

[Tosk]

Is there an earlier version of The Captains online that includes the alleged footage?

No. It didn't get used.

It bugs me that people keep repeating this story when there doesn't seem to be evidence of it.

I did a bit of research. Here's Shatner himself writing on it in "Leonard".

There was a small incident; I was making a film about the many captains of the Enterprise, and Leonard did not want to appear in it. I thought he was kidding; it was such a small thing. Just the next of so many projects we’d done together. But then a cameraman filmed him speaking at a convention without his permission, and he got angry. Essentially, he stopped speaking to me. It made no sense, and I reached out to him several times to try to heal this problem, but I never got a response. I don’t understand this, I thought, but I just assumed that given time this rift would heal. Every friendship has its ups and downs. This was a temporary blip; our friendship was too strong to end because of something this meaningless.

Then he says this:

If I knew the reason Leonard stopped talking to me, not only would I admit it, I would have taken steps to heal those wounds. If I had done something wrong, if I had said something that was perhaps misunderstood, I would want to know it so I might make amends. But none of that took place. I have no idea what happened.

It couldn’t have been that cameraman. In fact, after that appearance, we both flew back to Los Angeles on Leonard’s plane, and he was his usual self. If something was wrong, then I certainly didn’t sense it, nor did he say anything.

Shatner says very plainly that Leonard basically stopped talking to him after that incident. Then seems to try to deny this to himself with the idea that because Leonard was "normal" on the flight back, then it can't have been that. Because no one has ever ruminated on something before making a decision.

 

[willa6276m]

No. It didn't get used.


I did a bit of research. Here's Shatner himself writing on it in "Leonard".



Then he says this:



Shatner says very plainly that Leonard basically stopped talking to him after that incident. Then seems to try to deny this to himself with the idea that because Leonard was "normal" on the flight back, then it can't have been that. Because no one has ever ruminated on something before making a decision.

Thank you! This is so helpful! I really appreciate your replies and time and work.

 

[Denise]

Maybe something said in the flight back caused it. In some interviews I have seen with Nimoy, he seems like a touchy person.

 

[Tosk]

"I told you I didn't want to be involved."
"Ah, get over it, Lenny."

 

[InLoveWithJimKirk]

I hate that this happened -- and not because I believe a myth of undying and instant friendship between these two over the years.

I have been told by those wiser than me that sometimes when people become very sick, and face the end of their lives, they become very focused and withdraw themselves from things that aren't the most important to them. Maybe Nimoy focused only on his family and himself and removed himself from those things he found less essential in his life.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that a long-term, very public professional association and occasionally consequential friendship over decades could be detonated by total silence without explanation between two reasonable people. Except it happened to me. So I regret that Bill felt a need to explain the situation to the public at all. It really was not anyone's business.

Bill Shatner seems to have felt very deeply about it -- perhaps more than Leonard Nimoy did actually. It happens, and it is hard and very unfortunate. It's one thing to lose what you think is a solid friendship to time, distance, age, differing circumstances, changing interests -- without a word -- but instead experience intentional silence and many rejections of a chance to talk about it and make amends. Even if the decision is to end the relationship, at least BOTH parties should know why.

It's impossible for us as "fans" to know the reality of their friendship or for us to assign judgement or meaning or value as it may pertain to their performance together 60 years ago.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I have been told by those wiser than me that sometimes when people become very sick, and face the end of their lives, they become very focused and withdraw themselves from things that aren't the most important to them. Maybe Nimoy focused only on his family and himself and removed himself from those things he found less essential in his life.

This, plus the fact that in some people, the combination of age and terminal illness takes an enormous toll on the brain, which affects the mind, the spirit, the personality. As I see it, Bill and Leonard were great friends during that interval when they had fully matured, the jealous rivalry had passed into history, but Leonard was still himself, sound of mind and body. Those were the days.

In an unrelated matter, another thing that happened with Leonard late in life was that he became so wrapped up in his religion and ethnicity as to all but abandon his Vulcan heritage. No harm done, but I remember noting it.

 

[David cgc]

In an unrelated matter, another thing that happened with Leonard late in life was that he became so wrapped up in his religion and ethnicity as to all but abandon his Vulcan heritage.

Come again?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Come again?

I recall Nimoy getting very much into religious studies in his community, and pretty much leaving Spock behind. I don't have links, as I wasn't documenting this stuff for later citation. But I saw it in the media.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I recall Nimoy getting very much into religious studies in his community, and pretty much leaving Spock behind. I don't have links, as I wasn't documenting this stuff for later citation. But I saw it in the media.

Framing that as his "Vulcan heritage" seems a bit odd.

 

[Ssosmcin]

So I regret that Bill felt a need to explain the situation to the public at all. It really was not anyone's business.

He got a tremendous amount of crap from certain fan circles because he didn't attent Nimoy's funeral. It still gets mentioned. So, I can understand his need to want to explain it.

Also to give him something to put in the book he wanted people to pick up. Not to sound cynical, but business is business.

 

[CoveTom]

I recall Nimoy getting very much into religious studies in his community, and pretty much leaving Spock behind. I don't have links, as I wasn't documenting this stuff for later citation. But I saw it in the media.

Given that Nimoy actually played Spock in both the 2009 Star Trek film and Into Darkness, the latter of which was less than two years before he died, I'm not sure how true that is.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

He got a tremendous amount of crap from certain fan circles because he didn't attend Nimoy's funeral. It still gets mentioned. So, I can understand his need to want to explain it.

Also to give him something to put in the book he wanted people to pick up. Not to sound cynical, but business is business.

From what I remember, Bill was in Florida for a charity event, and he planned to attend Leonard's funeral the following day. But the Nimoys moved the funeral up a day at the last minute, to outfox Star Trek fans who were likely to crowd around the funeral and gawk at it.

Bill had to decide between the two events, and he chose to honor his commitment to the charity rather than rush back to L.A.

I would think the Nimoys could have told Bill about this plan sooner, but they chose not to. Or maybe I'm way off base. It doesn't matter what I think.

 

[Ssosmcin]

From what I remember, Bill was in Florida for a charity event, and he planned to attend Leonard's funeral the following day. But the Nimoys moved the funeral up a day at the last minute, to outfox Star Trek fans who were likely to crowd around the funeral and gawk at it.

Bill had to decide between the two events, and he chose to honor his commitment to the charity rather than rush back to L.A.

I would think the Nimoys could have told Bill about this plan sooner, but they chose not to. Or maybe I'm way off base. It doesn't matter what I think.

Yeah I remember that also. The Red Cross event. He also felt that Leonard would have understood. He still took crap for it

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Yeah I remember that also. The Red Cross event. He also felt that Leonard would have understood. He still took crap for it

It was in Leonard that Shatner wrote that he felt he wouldn't have been welcome at the service due to the falling out. Nimoy's own children have said that, no, he would have been welcome had he been able to come. AIUI, they don't know the reason for Nimoy's distancing from Shatner, either. Roberto Orci claimed to know the reason, and he said it was nothing to do with the filming incident.

Things happen in the brain when someone gets sick, especially when they're elderly. My mother changed in the last year of her life. Personally, I feel the same probably happened with Nimoy, and I completely understand why that would eat at Shatner, because he didn't understand what was happening with his friend, he felt pushed away, he couldn't get answers, and he didn't get closure. That's tough to work through.

 

[InLoveWithJimKirk]

Yeah I remember that also. The Red Cross event. He also felt that Leonard would have understood. He still took crap for it

I believe that Bill's three daughters attended Leonard's funeral in their father's stead while he was in Florida with the Red Cross charity event.

 

[Denise]

From what I remember, Bill was in Florida for a charity event, and he planned to attend Leonard's funeral the following day. But the Nimoys moved the funeral up a day at the last minute, to outfox Star Trek fans who were likely to crowd around the funeral and gawk at it.

Bill had to decide between the two events, and he chose to honor his commitment to the charity rather than rush back to L.A.

I would think the Nimoys could have told Bill about this plan sooner, but they chose not to. Or maybe I'm way off base. It doesn't matter what I think.

It wasn't just fan gawkers. Westboro Baptist Church nuts were planning to show up.

 

[InLoveWithJimKirk]

It wasn't just fan gawkers. Westboro Baptist Church nuts were planning to show up.

Really? I did not hear this. I can't believe it, yet, of course, I can. Do you have sources on this out of curiosity?

I despise people who insist on imposing their beliefs -- whatever they they may be -- on others DURING A FUNERAL. The lowest of the low.

You could argue that regardless of the relationship between the two men, muckraker tabloids would have milked it for "Kirk Attends Spock's Funeral-- for Real This Time " headlines if Shatner HAD attended. Talk about Klingon bastards.