Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Gingerbread Demon, Jan 20, 2023.
Now we can get back to loving Season 3.
I'll put on some of it on tonight. I remember everything that happened, but it's a little faded. Even though there was an ongoing storyline Episodes 1-8 all felt relatively self-contained. 9-10 was the two-parter setting up Section 31 and the final stretch of DSC S3. And then Episodes 11-13. I still -- to this day -- think they got rid of Osyraa too quickly. There are ways she could've been used in Season 4 or 5, or whatever else they might have the 32nd Century. I like this downsized Federation having the Emerald Chain as its main rival.
The Emerald Chain was a better execution of what TNG tried to do initially with the Ferengi.
Osyraa was not a favorite of mine but her character improved s lot the last few episodes
I quite agree and wish she had stayed around more and changed a bit into more of an uneasy ally
I have rewatched season 3 twice now. I really love it, despite some of the flaws discussed above. I think sending a series a thousand years into the future and having that future be entertaining to a present audience is a colossal challenge for any writers. They did an excellent job, considering the challenge. I loved seeing Michael become more comfortable with herself. Of course it's the same language we use and very close to our society but, it has to be that way or we would be watching it with subtitles and need everything explained, so it's only logical that they wrote it to not change that much. The burn was a clever mechanism to explain the lack of development.
First watch, I was irritated with the source of the burn because there was a lot going on that season and it seemed like it took too long to reach such a deus ex machina of an explanation. But upon rewatch, I like the explanation, just should have come sooner and not been the whole focus. The environmental subtext is the only thing that bugs me, because they just magically find a giant dilithium planet and all is well; it's the same source of fuel for warp travel that was found in TNG to cause subspace rifts. I would have preferred to see a more sustainable solution, especially given that discovery uses a better alternative.
Nevertheless, I loved the focus on trauma and growth. Seeing Michael go from renegade to captain but doing it her way, was really powerful. I also loved the style of the future. (Although I doubt we'd all just suddenly only wear black in the 'dark age', but it looks good!)
I liked Osyraa and I genuinely think the idea of an "Anti-Federation" could be interesting, which is where I thought they might go with the Emerald Chain, since it seemed to be a union of at least the Orions, Andorians, and others. The original intention for the Dominion was that they would be something like that, before the powers that be of DS9 decided they wanted to focus just on the Founders, Vorta, and Jem'Hadar.
To me, the most interesting scenes of Discovery season 3 is when Osyraa basically sues for peace, and Vance tries to figure out whether it's real or a ploy.
The entire deal is an attempt to get the positive political capital of the Federation while corrupting what was left of it. And it relied on a tactic that the Federation in almost every circumstance is ready to pursue: negotiation and agreements. But Osyraa wanted peace, but peace on her terms. The Admiral knew that she wanted to pull the strings from behind-the-scenes. Also, some of the terms she lays out didn’t sound like the Emerald Chain had any intentions of fundamentally changing. She mentions anti-slavery legislation but legislation isn’t law until it’s passed, and even then having a law doesn’t exactly mean anything if the people who’re supposed to enforce are corrupt. Osyraa also said the armistice would entail a “15-year transition” for the Emerald Chain to stop violating the Prime Directive.
Osyraa herself says that people still believe in the Federation as a symbol of “hope.” The only thing that’s probably kept what’s left of it together is that belief. To make an agreement with the Emerald Chain, an organization that’s committed war crimes, condones slavery, and routinely violates Starfleet’s highest principle would undermine that faith without a public example that the Emerald Chain was willing to change and answer for their conduct.
And to me what made all of this even better is that if you start thinking about it, is there really a lot of diff between an agreement with the Emerald Chain and the Klingon Empire of the 23rd century? From what we're told and see in "Errand of Mercy," the Klingons have committed atrocities on par, but (from what we know) the Klingons didn’t have to pass anti-slavery legislation and have officials stand trial as part of the Khitomer Accords.
Indeed. It's funny to me how the Klingons are treated as totally cool to be at peace with the Federation when they are hardly blameless in the atrocities department.
If “better, smarter fighter” means you shoot your opponent from a safe distance, sure.
I mean, if size and weight mean nothing then weight classes in boxing, wrestling, and MMA have always been pointless. Someone should tell them.
This is also why everyone knows a trained 10 year old can beat up an untrained adult.
We’re talking about science fiction, after all, not science, where F=ma.
It’s happened in real life.
Not the 10yo part.
Are you referring to the anecdote about a smaller man beating up a larger man because skillz?
Put a 225 lb man hand to hand against a 130 lb woman and the woman gets trounced every time.
Period. Overall mass, muscle mass ratio, upper body strength, bone density, and aggression levels are all on the man’s side. The woman would be lucky not to have all the bones in her face broken if he lands one pinch without holding anything back.
To perpetuate this myth that the average woman stands a chance against the average man who significantly outstrips her in height/reach/weight/speed/strength is to put women in danger.
I’m a woman and I’m 5’11”. I’m broad shouldered and in decent shape. But I’m not stupid enough to think I have strong odds of overpowering a man my own size, much less a significantly larger man.
I’m really looking forward to that Edit option.
Yeah having watched S3 again I think killing Osyraa off was a wasted opportunity
sadly that seems to be the common theme with discovery(and picard) lots of missed/wasted opportunity regardless i still greatly enjoyed disco
Was there a reason the actress that played her had a full head prosthetic rather then just makeup?
A lot of the orions were like that, not just her.
I don't know why.
Am re-watching right now.
Am up to episode 10. I must say, it is much better than I remember. I do HATE the Burn cause, though. But still, the first 10 were darn good. "People of Earth", "Forget Me Not", and "Die Trying" were all very good to excellent. Ditto "The Sanctuary" & "Terra Firma."
"That Hope Is You, Part I" had some cheesy fight scenes, but the ending, for me was super powerful. "Umification, III" was likewise, for me, powerful in spots but une en in others.
"Scavengers" & "Far From Home" rank lowest for me, but each was perfectly fine as an episode.
If fact, I think the start of DISCO seadons 1-3 are all strong. Thru Ep. 9 in S1 (Into the Forest I Go). Thru Ep. 8 in S2 (If Memory Serves). And thru Ep. 10 in S3 (Terra Firma).
I don't think they stuck the landing until S4.
Easier, I think. Looking for less time in the chair.
Re-watched the last 3 eps. Thoughts.
Not as bad as I remembered. Still do not like the Burn cause explanation, but I didn't HATE it on rewatch.
I still don't get how Osyraa transported onto DISCO so easily, weren't shields up? And I think Vance's counter to Osyraa was knowingly a deal-breaker and did not ring true to me at all. He should have taken it to Rillak before blowing it up. Osyraa WAS telling the truth save for 1 thing.
Thought Tilly did well and the battle to retake the ship were good. As was Burnham getting Stamets off the ship and Tilly's group going on the suicide mission.
I don't get how DISCO lasted that long vs the entire fleet.
Plot armor it's greater than actual armor
Separate names with a comma.