How would Janeway have dealt with the Prophets (and they with her)?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by at Quark's, Feb 11, 2019 at 3:48 PM.

  1. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    Suppose Janeway would have been in Sisko's position and contacted the Prophets.

    How would she have dealt with them (and they with her)? Something tells me she wouldn't have been as conducive to their suggestions as Sisko grew to be over the years ....

    (Once I started thinking about this, immediately a scene popped up in my head where "Maj Culluh" tells her: "Your species is adversarial. Agressive. The Janeway should walk the path laid out for her and argue less.", (even though of course she never would have met Culluh in that case), and I haven't been able to get rid of it yet .... )
     
  2. Kilana2

    Kilana2 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't know. My gut feeling tells me, that Chakotay would have to keep her from doing something stupid with the Prophets like killing them accidentally. Or trying to close the Wormhole permanently to keep the Jem'Hadar from entering the Alpha Quadrant.
     
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  3. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is this transposing much of Sisko's backstory onto Janeway (e.g. birth orchestrated by the Prophets, grief from losing a spouse, considering resigning) whilst still keeping her background as a science officer?

    If so, I suspect she would actively seek to distance herself from the title of Emissary, looking at the Prophets as advanced aliens and the Celestial Temple as a scientific marvel. Even with her getting more involved and invested in Bajor she would still have difficulties with being elevated to such a prominent place in their culture, though she probably would keep an open mind (they are aliens outside of linear time with capabilities well beyond anything Starfleet possesses after all). She may be swayed to be a little more receptive of the Prophets when she discovers the origins of her birth, though she wouldn't become a believer.
     
  4. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is this a response to the Punch It podcast?

    Before Voyager aired, the production received a number of threats that focused on casting a woman as captain. Even before the pilot aired, the creators decided that they were not going to explore the legitimacy of Janeway's command. She was the captain, that was it. Assuming they would make the same choices had Janeway been made the commanding officer of DS9, it probably would mean that the qualities in the lead that made the religious story work would be gone: the doubt, the troubled past, the volatility, the demands of fatherhood, etc.

    It seems that we would get, at best, a confrontational Janeway, who did not just challenge the Prophets, but actively worked against them.
     
  5. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Or discovers a wormhole that can get Voyager home, and so closes it for ... reasons. The woman was great at not getting that ship home.
    A number like what? Two or three?

    I wonder if all the threats came from Geneviève Bujold?
     
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  6. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Commodore Commodore

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    It was an accident!
    The only way she'd have gotten the crew home earlier would be if the show got cancelled. Or figured out how to make the warp engines go from the Delta back to the Alpha Quadrant instantaneously, and land in the Pacific Ocean at dusk.
     
  7. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The number is unclear. According to Wang:

    It is a little-known fact that during the first season, Mulgrew's Janeway had a teary eye on more than one occasion, only to be vetoed by the producers and covered up with a re-shoot. If you can allow Captain Picard to bawl his eyes out for 10 minutes over the death of his relatives in the opening of the film Generations, then how on earth can you not allow Captain Janeway the chance to show some genuine emotion? The only possible reason for why Berman did this lies in the various death and bomb threats that were sent to the Voyager production offices at Paramount Studios over the decision to have a woman in command of a starship. Maybe he was afraid of the backlash of a male-dominated America and molded Janeway into a tough-as-nails Captain devoid of human emotions. Not only were there no tears for the human characters, there were no laughs, either.

    These threats are also discussed in Fifty Year Mission IIRC.
     
  8. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree with this. Janeway is one of the worst captains in history of Starfleet.
     
  9. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    No one really knows how Janeway would have dealt with the Prophets. I suspect that this thread is nothing more than another attempt on how terrible she is as a Starfleet captain. And probably because she is a woman. Once again, Trek fandom's bigotry rear its ugly head. Why on earth didn't you ask this damn question about Picard, Kirk or Archer?
     
  10. Kilana2

    Kilana2 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I never said she's the worst Captain. I said she would likely do something stupid or something questionable one might have a discussion about. That doesn't make her a bad Captain. She would respect the Prophets and the Bajoran's belief. On the other hand she is a scientist and normally keeps herself out of religious debates.
    I guess she would have tougher dealings with Kai Winn.


    And: I don't think that the original poster's intention was to prove how bad Janeway as Captain supposedly was.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019 at 9:50 PM
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  11. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    First off, of the main captain characters Archer was the worse captain. And not because of his gender.

    Janeway wasn't a terrible captain because she was a woman, it's because she was a terrible captain.
     
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  12. kkt

    kkt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'd nominate Captain Tracey from "The Omega Glory". Lots of lies in his verbal reports to Kirk, gross violation of the Prime Directive, lost his entire crew unnecessarily.
     
  13. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I feel like a lot of people think too linearly about this aspect of the matter: Sisko's birth was arranged by the Prophets *because* he was the one who met them. They might have done the same with anyone else who managed to open a dialogue with them. I'm also pretty sure it was Sisko who made first contact with them, despite their history with the Bajorans. Nothing to do with them has to make chronological sense.
     
  14. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    I chose Janeway, not because she is a woman, but because she is the only captain who in practice rarely, if ever has to defer to / trust in "higher authorities" in the series, so we don't get to see this side of her character much. (Picard, Sisko, Kirk and Archer all have their superiors who they have to answer to, Janeway in practice doesn't (at least not during the run of the series)). On rare occasions, we see a tiny sliver of it - for example there's that episode Sacred Ground where she realises in the end that the guides were right: the ritual is meaningless, it was only she herself who needed to "invest" it with meaning, and that it would have been a lot easier on her if she simply could have accepted what they told her instead of going the hard route with her preconceptions. I don't like the episode itself that much, but this is a side of her I wish had been explored somewhat more during the series' run.

    Sisko learns to trust (to some extent) in beings that are beyond him in scope and comprehension. I can't for the life of me see Picard ever doing this - he will defer to authority but only if he understands it himself-, so that's why I did not chose him for consideration - this doesn't seem like an interesting area to explore. Janeway however, just might. Then again, she might not. I have to admit that I did not think further than these three contemporaries.

    However, I agree that Kirk might be an interesting idea: how would he deal with God-like entities that for once aren't a scam, nor wish to be left alone, nor really try to exploit him --but still manipulate him when it suits their agenda, which usually seems to be for a good cause even if not always understood ? Would he have been able to establish a "working relationship" with them? I genuinely don't know. Archer I somehow can't visualise interacting with them at all.

    Never heard of it, no idea what it's about (but I'll look it up one of these days).
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019 at 12:30 AM
  15. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Kang, now with ridges Premium Member

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    Janeway's background is in science, so that would have colored her approach to the Prophets.
     
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  16. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Had Janeway been assigned as Commander of DS9 who might've been her Bajoran First Officer? In the early nineties, it is highly doubtful they'd be so bold as to make the CO and XO women--if they did all we'd get would be a bitchfest. I'd suspect the character of Kira would be a man, with the rest of the cast remaining as is, which would make for some interesting scenes with Janeway and Quark, plus I can see a very intellectual relationship between her and Dax--very much one of equals. My main question would be, would they attempt to do another single mother in space (perhaps this time a mother/daughter relationship)?
     
  17. FreddyE

    FreddyE Captain Captain

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    I wonder if they wouldn´t have given the role of the emissary to somebody else...a male Kira would be the obvious choice.
     
  18. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway would have dealt with it pretty much the same as Sisko. The real question is, what method would she have used to explain linear time?
     
  19. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In th past, present, and future, Harry Kim is an ensign. It's linear.
     
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  20. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hairstyles?
     
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