How large is a typical ion storm in Star Trek?

[Gary7]

OK, something that has recently bugged the hell out of me. It happened in TOS and a couple of times in ENT. But it has happened in the other series as well. Memory Alpha : Ion Storm.

Court Martial (TOS)
HANSON: Approaching ion storm, sir.
KIRK: Warp factor one, Mister Hanson.
HANSON: Warp one, sir.

Broken Bow (ENT)
TRAVIS: I'm reading an ion storm on that trajectory, sir. Should I go around it?
ARCHER: We can't be afraid of the wind, Ensign. Take us to warp four.

Strange New World (ENT)
TUCKER: This is nothing compared to a hurricane coming up through the Florida Keys.
TRAVIS: Try flying through an ion storm at warp two.

Now... given what was said here, the implication is that an ion storm could be so vast as to stretch beyond the length of a solar system. If you're traveling at warp, wouldn't an ion storm appear like a "blip"? You'd fly right through it so fast and be out the other side, no more than a few seconds. And yet... in these cases, the Enterprise is struggling with the ravages of the ion storm for many minutes. While traveling at warp!

So how vast is an ion storm typically supposed to be? I haven't yet seen anything to indicate it.

 

[1001001]

147 square feet.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Plot size.

 

[Spot261]

147 square feet.

Don't be silly, they're three dimensional, so assuming an even distribution that would mean taking the root of 147 and cubing it to bring in the extra dimension and work in terms of volume, thus 1782.28028 cubic feet.

Approximately.

 

[MacLeod]

However big the plot demands it to be. You see the thing about space is that it's big, Really big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it’s a long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to space.”

 

[Spot261]

Seriously, all of the above, "ion storm" is generally the less interesting alternative to "spatial anomaly" in trek, one is rough terrain, the other is rough terrain which does some weird things.

If the things are larger than the solar system it doesn't at all seem unfeasible that a ship might take minutes to pass through one at warp, although again it will be as big as is required to meet whatever plot demands are required of it.

 

[at Quark's]

I think 'ion storm' is just shorthand for 'plot complication storm'. Size therefore is irrelevant.

 

[Spot261]

Size therefore is irrelevant.

Yeah yeah

 

[at Quark's]

sorry, should've written, its size , etc etc.

 

[GNDN18]

I don’t know from ion storms, but cosmic storms, well…

Those mothers are big…

…and scary!

…At least in the Gold Key-verse.

 

[MAGolding]

This reminds me of the A.E. Van Vogt novel The Mixed Men 1952 also known as Mission to the stars 1955. There were space storms in that novel, which seemed to be more like nebulae that for various reasons were especially dangerous for the starships in the setting to cross at their vast FTL speeds. So to me those space storms seemed more like interstellar reefs than storms. Moral: if you detect a space storm in time go around it or slow down drastically to a safe speed so you don't smash into it like a brick wall.

And I can't help thinking that space storms in Star Trek are more like reefs that slowly move at a snail's pace compared to interstellar FTL ships and need to be mapped and charted and then avoided by all future starships than like storms that can strike a starship without warning. On Earth storms are now usually tracked from their earliest beginnings and most ships and shores have considerable warning of their coming. So today even Earth storms at sea, many times more dangerous to sea ships than space storms should be to star ships, are not usually as mysterious and unpredictable threats as space storms in TOS.

There are many Star Trek examples of hyper dense nebulae that are literally millions and billions of times as dense as the nebulae known to astronomers. So if those hyper dense nebulae exist in Star Trek, why haven't astronomers discovered any yet? In the Star Trek universe the answer is because astronomers haven't imagined them yet, and thus have no idea where and how to look for them, and they are too tiny (for nebulae, that is) to be accidentally discovered looking for something else. So in the Star Trek universe there are a number of hyper dense nebulae that would be sort of like reefs for any starships that tried to cross them at high warp speeds.

Thus those nebulae are charted and given names despite being so tiny compared to most nebulae, because they are like reefs in interstellar space. And possibly some of the hyper dense nebulae seen in the era of TNG would have been described as space storms in the era of TOS.

I note that astronomers have never detected any space phenomenon they wanted to describe as interstellar space storms. Thus in the universe of Star Trek space storms should be tiny but dangerous space phenomenon much like hyper dense nebulae and similarly hard for astronomers from Earth to detect.

Thus I suspect that space storms in Star Trek (even though they are probably much more like space reefs) are probably similar and possibly related phenomena to hyper dense nebulae.

 

[Timo]

A few comments, not really disagreement or even much in the way of argument:

- A "reef" sounds stationary. The thing about ion storms is that they move like weather, and can surprise and perhaps even outrun a warp-capable starship.
- Yet Kirk wants to fly into one to study it. Perhaps he goes to warp because otherwise this relatively small phenomenon would get away?
- Kirk's desire to study the storm may reflect them being very rare and for that reason interesting - or them being very common and for that reason threatening and therefore interesting. Tornado hunting is a very appealing analogy to what is going on in "Court Martial" in many ways...

Separately, we could evoke the idea that stars in Trek have a bubble of weird science surrounding them, unrecognized by today's science but perverting all our measurements and the resulting understanding. Say, a subspace bubble could explain the Fermi Paradox nicely enough: the universe is full of commuication, but most bands are heavily damped by the bubble. And not only do faint EM messages go unheard, but all those bright-colored nebulae appear dark and sometimes even invisible.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MacLeod]

A few comments, not really disagreement or even much in the way of argument:

- A "reef" sounds stationary. The thing about ion storms is that they move like weather, and can surprise and perhaps even outrun a warp-capable starship.
- Yet Kirk wants to fly into one to study it. Perhaps he goes to warp because otherwise this relatively small phenomenon would get away?
- Kirk's desire to study the storm may reflect them being very rare and for that reason interesting - or them being very common and for that reason threatening and therefore interesting. Tornado hunting is a very appealing analogy to what is going on in "Court Martial" in many ways...

Separately, we could evoke the idea that stars in Trek have a bubble of weird science surrounding them, unrecognized by today's science but perverting all our measurements and the resulting understanding. Say, a subspace bubble could explain the Fermi Paradox nicely enough: the universe is full of commuication, but most bands are heavily damped by the bubble. And not only do faint EM messages go unheard, but all those bright-colored nebulae appear dark and sometimes even invisible.

Timo Saloniemi

Except the sensors can seem to detect things light years if not parsecs away. Which at TMP speeds a parsec would be ~20 hours away. So one would think they have time to outrun it as they would have it's speed and direction and could plot a course in three dimensional space away from it.

Sensors should also be able to detect if one was likely to form in a given region so they could avoid it.

But unless they wanted to study one, one would think they would avoid them.

 

[Albertese]

Thought just now occurred to me: maybe an ion storm is a relatively small thing, say, several AU in diameter, but it's the result of a much larger phenomenon we hadn't yet considered. An ion storm is the result of an "overlap" of multiple universes where the boundaries between two universes are more permeable than usual ("Mirror, Mirror") Where the multiversal boundary is thinnest, this effect is the obvious storm, which can even cause electrical effects on the surface of a Class M world. But often the surrounding volumes of space are also fragile, perhaps the weakened boundary surrounding the ion storm extends for as far as several lightyears around and a ship moving through at warp can destabilize it enough to drag the storm effects along with it.

The effect is "sticky" to subspace fields. So a ship flies at warp anywhere near it and the storm tags the ship and gloms into the warp field. It can take some time for the ion storm effect to dissipate, depending on the power of the subspace field energy from the engines as well as the strength and size of the storm to begin with; which is a function of how weak/destabilized the boundary volume between the overlapping universe is. Meanwhile, the storm's effect on the ship is playing havoc with the electrical systems and causing potentially dangerous feedback in the engines, making the ride rather rough. You shouldn't just stop the engines, as the ion storm will still be there with you because you're still in the weakened boundary volume and, once started, the storm may take longer to end on it's own than the time it would take to just fly through.

After so many dangerous ion pod reading missions ("Court Martial"), Star Fleet eventually figured out enough about this phenomenon that in the decades after the 2260s, warp engines were made that could operate without causing destabilization between weakened boundary volumes, and ion storms were easily avoided, which is why we so seldom hear of them in the TNG+ shows.

There you have it, citizens; my off-the-cuff thoughts about ion storms. Thoughts?

--Alex

 

[Spot261]

Thought just now occurred to me: maybe an ion storm is a relatively small thing, say, several AU in diameter, but it's the result of a much larger phenomenon we hadn't yet considered. An ion storm is the result of an "overlap" of multiple universes where the boundaries between two universes are more permeable than usual ("Mirror, Mirror") Where the multiversal boundary is thinnest, this effect is the obvious storm, which can even cause electrical effects on the surface of a Class M world. But often the surrounding volumes of space are also fragile, perhaps the weakened boundary surrounding the ion storm extends for as far as several lightyears around and a ship moving through at warp can destabilize it enough to drag the storm effects along with it.

The effect is "sticky" to subspace fields. So a ship flies at warp anywhere near it and the storm tags the ship and gloms into the warp field. It can take some time for the ion storm effect to dissipate, depending on the power of the subspace field energy from the engines as well as the strength and size of the storm to begin with; which is a function of how weak/destabilized the boundary volume between the overlapping universe is. Meanwhile, the storm's effect on the ship is playing havoc with the electrical systems and causing potentially dangerous feedback in the engines, making the ride rather rough. You shouldn't just stop the engines, as the ion storm will still be there with you because you're still in the weakened boundary volume and, once started, the storm may take longer to end on it's own than the time it would take to just fly through.

After so many dangerous ion pod reading missions ("Court Martial"), Star Fleet eventually figured out enough about this phenomenon that in the decades after the 2260s, warp engines were made that could operate without causing destabilization between weakened boundary volumes, and ion storms were easily avoided, which is why we so seldom here of them in the TNG+ shows.

There you have it, citizens; my off-the-cuff thoughts about ion storms. Thoughts?

--Alex

Ionically, I'm positive you're right.

 

[MAGolding]

Thought just now occurred to me: maybe an ion storm is a relatively small thing, say, several AU in diameter, but it's the result of a much larger phenomenon we hadn't yet considered. An ion storm is the result of an "overlap" of multiple universes where the boundaries between two universes are more permeable than usual ("Mirror, Mirror") Where the multiversal boundary is thinnest, this effect is the obvious storm, which can even cause electrical effects on the surface of a Class M world. But often the surrounding volumes of space are also fragile, perhaps the weakened boundary surrounding the ion storm extends for as far as several lightyears around and a ship moving through at warp can destabilize it enough to drag the storm effects along with it.

The effect is "sticky" to subspace fields. So a ship flies at warp anywhere near it and the storm tags the ship and gloms into the warp field. It can take some time for the ion storm effect to dissipate, depending on the power of the subspace field energy from the engines as well as the strength and size of the storm to begin with; which is a function of how weak/destabilized the boundary volume between the overlapping universe is. Meanwhile, the storm's effect on the ship is playing havoc with the electrical systems and causing potentially dangerous feedback in the engines, making the ride rather rough. You shouldn't just stop the engines, as the ion storm will still be there with you because you're still in the weakened boundary volume and, once started, the storm may take longer to end on it's own than the time it would take to just fly through.

After so many dangerous ion pod reading missions ("Court Martial"), Star Fleet eventually figured out enough about this phenomenon that in the decades after the 2260s, warp engines were made that could operate without causing destabilization between weakened boundary volumes, and ion storms were easily avoided, which is why we so seldom here of them in the TNG+ shows.

There you have it, citizens; my off-the-cuff thoughts about ion storms. Thoughts?

--Alex

That sounds pretty good to me. It doesn't seem to have any obvious flaws. Someone should remember it the next time someone discusses ion storms.

 

[Timo]

Except the sensors can seem to detect things light years if not parsecs away. Which at TMP speeds a parsec would be ~20 hours away. So one would think they have time to outrun it as they would have it's speed and direction and could plot a course in three dimensional space away from it.

Why away from it? Starship captains are supposed to fly into the things, and then study them with ion pods.

Not with sensors, but with ion pods, mind you. So apparently sensors only tell where the storm is, after which it's up to the warp drive to take the ship into said storm and keep her in there long enough for the ion pod to do its thing.

Sensors should also be able to detect if one was likely to form in a given region so they could avoid it.

But this would require understanding ion storms. And deliberately sailing into those and risking everybody's life in order to gain understanding suggests that Starfleet is still far from the goal in the 23rd century. We don't know if ion storms are better understood in Picard's time, but at least they don't appear to be the subject of study or worry any longer. Except for landing parties dependent on transporters, that is.

But unless they wanted to study one, one would think they would avoid them.

The funny thing is that we never hear of any starship avoiding an ion storm. Only of landing parties getting into trouble in such storms ("Mirror, Mirror") or deciding not to risk it (ST:NEM).

Apparently, those things come in grades, with only "Force 7" posing a real hazard to Kirk's ship. Perhaps most ion storms are harmless to ships after all?

Amusingly, we also have ENT "The Catwalk" where a "neutronic wavefront", moving at high warp, threatens to kill everybody aboard Archer's poorly protected starship. There's a living planet right next to them, though - are we to suppose the wavefront sterilized that planet? T'Pol mentions another such wavefront in recent history. Why isn't every planet in the galaxy dead of those things? Shouldn't Archer simply have beamed down his whole crew so that they could enjoy a bit of shore leave while weathering the storm?

The same of course applies to ion storms - they can't really be harmful to planets. Which makes one wonder why starships should be more vulnerable than planets.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Gary7]

Thought just now occurred to me: maybe an ion storm is a relatively small thing, say, several AU in diameter, but it's the result of a much larger phenomenon we hadn't yet considered. An ion storm is the result of an "overlap" of multiple universes where the boundaries between two universes are more permeable than usual ("Mirror, Mirror") Where the multiversal boundary is thinnest, this effect is the obvious storm, which can even cause electrical effects on the surface of a Class M world. But often the surrounding volumes of space are also fragile, perhaps the weakened boundary surrounding the ion storm extends for as far as several lightyears around and a ship moving through at warp can destabilize it enough to drag the storm effects along with it.

The effect is "sticky" to subspace fields. So a ship flies at warp anywhere near it and the storm tags the ship and gloms into the warp field. It can take some time for the ion storm effect to dissipate, depending on the power of the subspace field energy from the engines as well as the strength and size of the storm to begin with; which is a function of how weak/destabilized the boundary volume between the overlapping universe is. Meanwhile, the storm's effect on the ship is playing havoc with the electrical systems and causing potentially dangerous feedback in the engines, making the ride rather rough. You shouldn't just stop the engines, as the ion storm will still be there with you because you're still in the weakened boundary volume and, once started, the storm may take longer to end on it's own than the time it would take to just fly through.

After so many dangerous ion pod reading missions ("Court Martial"), Star Fleet eventually figured out enough about this phenomenon that in the decades after the 2260s, warp engines were made that could operate without causing destabilization between weakened boundary volumes, and ion storms were easily avoided, which is why we so seldom hear of them in the TNG+ shows.

There you have it, citizens; my off-the-cuff thoughts about ion storms. Thoughts?

--Alex

Thanks -- sounds like a plausible explanation to account for the expansiveness of these ion storms.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Wow, that's really nice art on those Gold Key Star Trek pages. It looks almost Al Williamson-esque!

And I just love the title "Furlough to Fury."

Thought just now occurred to me: maybe an ion storm is a relatively small thing, say, several AU in diameter, but it's the result of a much larger phenomenon we hadn't yet considered. An ion storm is the result of an "overlap" of multiple universes where the boundaries between two universes are more permeable than usual ("Mirror, Mirror") Where the multiversal boundary is thinnest, this effect is the obvious storm, which can even cause electrical effects on the surface of a Class M world. But often the surrounding volumes of space are also fragile, perhaps the weakened boundary surrounding the ion storm extends for as far as several lightyears around and a ship moving through at warp can destabilize it enough to drag the storm effects along with it.

The effect is "sticky" to subspace fields. So a ship flies at warp anywhere near it and the storm tags the ship and gloms into the warp field. It can take some time for the ion storm effect to dissipate, depending on the power of the subspace field energy from the engines as well as the strength and size of the storm to begin with; which is a function of how weak/destabilized the boundary volume between the overlapping universe is. Meanwhile, the storm's effect on the ship is playing havoc with the electrical systems and causing potentially dangerous feedback in the engines, making the ride rather rough. You shouldn't just stop the engines, as the ion storm will still be there with you because you're still in the weakened boundary volume and, once started, the storm may take longer to end on it's own than the time it would take to just fly through.

After so many dangerous ion pod reading missions ("Court Martial"), Star Fleet eventually figured out enough about this phenomenon that in the decades after the 2260s, warp engines were made that could operate without causing destabilization between weakened boundary volumes, and ion storms were easily avoided, which is why we so seldom hear of them in the TNG+ shows.

There you have it, citizens; my off-the-cuff thoughts about ion storms. Thoughts?

I really like this explanation and I would love to use it in a Trek story I've been playing with. Consider this in my Headcanon!

 

[Albertese]

I really like this explanation and I would love to use it in a Trek story I've been playing with. Consider this in my Headcanon!

You're welcome!

--Alex