How do you think the prequels would look if "Phantom Menace" wasn't part of them?

[fireproof78]

Since TMP sets everything up for the prequels, I don't see how you can cut it out. Also, given the huge hype around it (and the case that ATOTC is arguably a weaker movie), I suspect that a lot of TMP hate is centered around people's hyped expectations. But that's just me.

I don't think you should cut it out, though I've hear many arguments for it. But, I think it needs some rewrites and possibly some changes to the characters.

Given that, you're right, in that it sets everything up, I think that focusing more on Obi-Wan would be a good starting place.

 

[Tuskin38]

Considering it was the highest box office grossing Star Wars film before The Force Awakens....yeah it kind of got watched....a lot.

They were also the first Star Wars films in x number of years, so they were hyped.

 

[JD]

As much as I think Naboo is beautiful, I sometimes wonder if it should have been Alderaan so that the planet's destruction has more of an impact in ANH.

I agree, I think not using Alderaan as a setting in the prequels was a mistake.

 

[{ Emilia }]

TPM was pointless but AOTC and ROTS were offensively bad.

 

[WebLurker]

I don't think you should cut it out, though I've hear many arguments for it. But, I think it needs some rewrites and possibly some changes to the characters.

Given that, you're right, in that it sets everything up, I think that focusing more on Obi-Wan would be a good starting place.

How so?

 

[Venardhi]

Obi-Wan is arguably best positioned to be the "protagonist" of the PT. A bit more of a push in that direction would have given the trilogy more of an emotional through-line and provided the audience a consistent perspective.

 

[fireproof78]

How so?

In TPM, Obi-Wan Kenobi is a secondary character, with very little to do. He provides more exposition on Qui-Gon's back story, rather than his own story. He's also a bit arrogant, looking down on other lifeforms.

Instead, I think Obi-Wan should be the perspective character, possibly being reluctant to take an apprentice because he doesn't always agree with the Council. But, when he encounters Anakin, decides to train him.

That all said, I don't think Qui-Gon should be eliminated, but I think Obi-Wan and him should stick together more, rather than relegating Obi-Wan to off screen antics.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Obi-Wan was the original perspective characters iirc. Qui-Gonn as the main perspective character was added in later. But then again in the earlier incarnations of TPM, Jar-Jar was also more tolerable and actually useful. It seems in the case of TPM, too many rewrites and rejuggling the characters actually hurt the movie. While in the case of AOTC/ROTS a lot of the problems was not enough revisions.

 

[LJones41]

I don't think you should cut it out, though I've hear many arguments for it. But, I think it needs some rewrites and possibly some changes to the characters.

You might as well make changes for all eight films. As far as I'm concerned, none of them are perfect.

Obi-Wan was the original perspective characters iirc. Qui-Gonn as the main perspective character was added in later. But then again in the earlier incarnations of TPM, Jar-Jar was also more tolerable and actually useful. It seems in the case of TPM, too many rewrites and rejuggling the characters actually hurt the movie. While in the case of AOTC/ROTS a lot of the problems was not enough revisions.

Disagree with you HEARTILY.



It amazes me at how Prequel bashers managed to find so many different ways to convey the same damn message about the films. There are at least three or four current threads on this topic alone. Three or four?

And after nearly 18 years, this bashing has become ridiculously redundant to me. Worse, it seems as if many STAR WARS have utilized more energy into bashing the Prequel movies and claiming how they need to be changed, than simply expressing their approval of those movies that they like. I find it very disturbing, to say the least.

 

[Campe]

TPM is not a perfect movie by any stretch of the imagination. But it is a piece of genius in comparison to AOTC.

Having said that, it does, as others have suggested, serve as a nice prologue to the rest of the series, showing all that is lost in the next two prequels and all that they're fighting for in the OT.

Removing it does not give the whole effect of the story. While I'm not exactly certain how I'm going to show my kids Star Wars one day, I know that TPM will be a part of that (and AOTC).

 

[fireproof78]

It amazes me at how Prequel bashers managed to find so many different ways to convey the same damn message about the films. There are at least three or four current threads on this topic alone. Three or four?

And after nearly 18 years, this bashing has become ridiculously redundant to me. Worse, it seems as if many STAR WARS have utilized more energy into bashing the Prequel movies and claiming how they need to be changed, than simply expressing their approval of those movies that they like. I find it very disturbing, to say the least.

Why? People have different opinions on things, especially on entertainment preferences. If something doesn't work for me, but it works for other people's entertainment, than I usually go through a reflective process of why it doesn't work for me. And that results in a lot of brainstorming and different concepts that might have been.

There's nothing wrong with exploring possibilities and "What' ifs...?"

 

[WebLurker]

In TPM, Obi-Wan Kenobi is a secondary character, with very little to do. He provides more exposition on Qui-Gon's back story, rather than his own story. He's also a bit arrogant, looking down on other lifeforms.

Instead, I think Obi-Wan should be the perspective character, possibly being reluctant to take an apprentice because he doesn't always agree with the Council. But, when he encounters Anakin, decides to train him.

That all said, I don't think Qui-Gon should be eliminated, but I think Obi-Wan and him should stick together more, rather than relegating Obi-Wan to off screen antics.

Okay.

 

[Prax]

I really liked Qui-Gonn. He gives us a good contrast from from the mystical, stiff Jedi Council seated in their Ivory tower. Obi-Wan serves as a bridge between Qui-Gonn and the Jedi establishment, and later as a bridge to Anakin. Also, Obi-Wan doesn't look down on other creatures, he's just frustrated that Qui-Gonn seems to keep "going off the reservation." He's worried about completing their mission and thinks bringing on all these passengers will either a. Get them or his master in trouble with the council, or b. Hinder their progress.

A New Hope is very much an ensemble film. We don't meet Luke until about 15 minutes in. about 15 minutes later, we meet Obi-Wan, who then becomes the driving character. Obi-Wan is in the movie for about an hour. On the death star, the focus switches between Obi-Wan, and the now-trio of Luke, Han, and Leia. Then, in the last 15-20 minutes, the focus is on Luke and his trench run. The ensemble is reunited at the closing. The two following movies follow an A-plot/B-plot(indicative of an ensemble) in much the same manner.

 

[fireproof78]

Okay.

I really liked Qui-Gonn. He gives us a good contrast from from the mystical, stiff Jedi Council seated in their Ivory tower. Obi-Wan serves as a bridge between Qui-Gonn and the Jedi establishment, and later as a bridge to Anakin. Also, Obi-Wan doesn't look down on other creatures, he's just frustrated that Qui-Gonn seems to keep "going off the reservation." He's worried about completing their mission and thinks bringing on all these passengers will either a. Get them or his master in trouble with the council, or b. Hinder their progress.

That doesn't explain Obi-Wan's calling them "pathetic" and feels very out of character from how he is portrayed in the rest of the films.

I like Qui-Gon, a lot, as a character, and think he elevates TPM with his presence. However, I think the story sacrifices Obi-Wan's character development to have him in there to such a degree.

 

[Tuskin38]

That doesn't explain Obi-Wan's calling them "pathetic" and feels very out of character from how he is portrayed in the rest of the films.

He is younger and only a Padawan. There is 10 years between EP1 and EP2, he matured.

 

[Ithekro]

Also his main point of reference is Jar Jar Binks at that point.

 

[Prax]

That d, doesn't explain Obi-Wan's calling them "pathetic" and feels very out of character from how he is portrayed in the rest of the films

It saddens me to hear you say that...I always liked that line. And also "ahh Master, not again!"

They way he uses "pathetic" doesn't carry a derogatory connotation, the way people often use it nowadays, like "You're pathetic!"
It's being used in its traditional sense, like "These poor creatures."

 

[JeffinOakland]

The Phantom Menace is the best of the prequels. That's not saying much. It is still a shit movie. It gets shit on the most because it was the biggest let-down in the history of cinema. We waited 16 years to see Jar Jar Binks step in shit. Literally. People tend to be more accepting of the fact that Clones and Revenge are so awful because Phantom was so awful and, by then, they knew what to expect.

 

[fireproof78]

He is younger and only a Padawan. There is 10 years between EP1 and EP2, he matured.

Certainly, he matured and I'm not arguing against that. But, it doesn't sit well with the character TPM either. It sounds very jarring in the context of the film.

It saddens me to hear you say that...I always liked that line. And also "ahh Master, not again!"

They way he uses "pathetic" doesn't carry a derogatory connotation, the way people often use it nowadays, like "You're pathetic!"
It's being used in its traditional sense, like "These poor creatures."

Sorry, that's not the way I took the line, though I might rewatch to make sure I'm not remembering his tone in error. To me, it is very derogatory, and it is clear that he doesn't agree with Qui-Gon's decision in this area.

 

[JD]

You might as well make changes for all eight films. As far as I'm concerned, none of them are perfect.






Disagree with you HEARTILY.



It amazes me at how Prequel bashers managed to find so many different ways to convey the same damn message about the films. There are at least three or four current threads on this topic alone. Three or four?

And after nearly 18 years, this bashing has become ridiculously redundant to me. Worse, it seems as if many STAR WARS have utilized more energy into bashing the Prequel movies and claiming how they need to be changed, than simply expressing their approval of those movies that they like. I find it very disturbing, to say the least.

If you find this very disturbing, then I think you need to take a look around at all the shit going on in the world right now, and reevaluate your standards.