• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

How did the Romulans leave Vulcan?

Sandoval

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
How much detail is there about the means by which the Romulans left Vulcan in the distant past?

Did they build huge sublight generation ships and take hundreds of years to reach their destination or did they already have interstellar ships that could ferry them away?

Did these Romulans settle on several planets along the way or just stay on their ships until they reached Romulus?

Thanks!
 
Based solely on video/movie canon, we don't know. Though there was that episode of TNG with the proto-vulcans, it's never indicated if they originated on that planet or from Vulcan's distant past.
 
"Return to Tomorrow" does suggest that Vulcans consider themselves a transplanted species to begin with. But that may be an erroneous belief, and the truth as revealed by the 24th century may be more complicated.

The Romulan departure is quite ill-described in canon - we're still missing a definite date, for example. Or a definite reason. Or information on whether the Romulans were a pre-existing group on Vulcan, or a group defined by its departure. Memory Alpha tries to utilize known facts, but errs on the side of speculation nevertheless. For example, the 100-year war between Vulcans and Romulans, mentioned in "Death Wish", is claimed to have happened after Romulans left Vulcan, but this is by no means certain (and it's even doubtful that the war actually happened in "our" timeline).

The thing is, though, the Vulcan monastery on P'Jem was founded a thousand years before the time of Surak. If Vulcans had starflight at that time, it would only appear logical to assume that they would have warp drive a thousand years later, when Surak's wars began. Then again, we don't know for sure that the Romulans would have waited until Surak's wars before leaving. Perhaps there wasn't a simple mass exodus, but back-and-forth movement and the occasional interstellar war (including the one mentioned in "Death Wish") before Vulcan was free of Romulans for good?

Timo Saloniemi
 
^^^
Yup. See Diane Duane & Peter Morwood's excellent novel The Romulan Way for a very entertaining description of how the Rihannsu....er Romulans came to be who they are.
 
In "The Romulan Way", it was 17 sublight generation ships (each carrying 5000) at relativistic speeds. They lost a few ships on the way, perhaps expaining the Vulcanoids found in TNG.
 
From a post I made in the General topic:

Perhaps the Vulcans could build smallish, low war ships that would be impractical for moving tens of thousands of people. Imagine trying to move 50,000 people from Europe to America in the early days of the 20th century, shortly after trans-ocean air flight was achieved. While it would be possible to fly 4-6 people at a time it would be much more efficient to use large ocean going ships.
 
As other posters have suggested, without any real canon or non-canon for that matter references, I'd go with the Romulans having constructed several "Generational Starships" and travelled at Sub-Light speeds until they came across a Planet that they deemed "suitable"

If you look at it from perspective, the Romulan Neutral Zone isn't that far away from Vulcan, if we go by the suggestion that the Romulan Neutral Zone is a hairline distance from the Beta Quadrant border, then from Vulcan it would only take the Romulans maybe 200 years or 2 Generations (based on the lifespan of Vulcans and Romulans)
 
I would think Vulcan had some practical form of interstellar travel by that point. Otherwise, the Romulans just would've relocated to the far side of the planet and set up shop there.
 
^^^
I agree. I like to think that the Vulcans had some form of early FTL drive--even if it ran on simple impulse power. Even cruising at warp one, it could have taken a couple of decades (if not more) for an anti-Surak faction to reach Romulus, IMO...
 
I would think Vulcan had some practical form of interstellar travel by that point. Otherwise, the Romulans just would've relocated to the far side of the planet and set up shop there.
On Earth, perhaps, but Vulcan is usually portrayed as being somewhat terrible, even for Vulcans. At the least, just by looking at it, its carrying capacity can probably be reasonably assumed to be much lower than Earth's (and this even before you try to interpret that possible purple anoxic ocean from TOS, looking at Vulcan in the later series with the better FX it looks just as bad or worse).

I'd imagine there'd be large numbers of people that would be happy to leave, schism and/or nuclear war or no schism and/or nuclear war.

I still say they were sublight prior to about 1600 CE. Any further back than that and serious problems arise. Also, Enterprise is lame. Its hair goes straight up, and it's bloody stupid.

sojourner said:
^Wouldn't 200 years be closer to 1 generation? based on Spock's age alone?

I wonder how much of Vulcan longevity is based on medical innovation. I mean, humans live to 150ish, but only in the 24th century, so there's no particular reason (unless I'm forgetting something) to suppose that 250ish Vulcans like Sarek were the norm or even possible around the time of Surak.
 
"Return to Tomorrow" does suggest that Vulcans consider themselves a transplanted species to begin with. But that may be an erroneous belief, and the truth as revealed by the 24th century may be more complicated.

How could they get that wrong? It should be very easy to tell if a species has been transplanted because its genetic code will be very different from the native life on the planet.
 
Spock says thet it may explain "certain elements of Vulcan pre-history". Lots of room there for explanations other than Vulcans being tansplanted.
 
Spock says thet it may explain "certain elements of Vulcan pre-history". Lots of room there for explanations other than Vulcans being tansplanted.

Well again, either Vulcans were transplanted or they were not. The genetic evidence should make it obvious whether they were or they were'nt. I don't see how there could be any doubt either way.
 
How could they get that wrong? It should be very easy to tell if a species has been transplanted because its genetic code will be very different from the native life on the planet.
Not in the Trek universe, though. Everybody has the same genetic roots there, after all. For all we know, we here on Earth are a native species but dogs were inserted from Sirius by a sinister alien race intent on turning our brains to porridge with excessive cuddliness.

And of course, it could be that Vulcan has no native life. There could be competing belief systems: one says that the Vulcan sapient humanoids (and perhaps some of their domesticated animals or pets) survived some sort of an ancient extinction event thanks to being technologically advanced while no other, lesser forms of native life did, while another says that the presence of Vulcans on a planet that cannot naturally harbor life is proof positive of interstellar migration. Neither camp has any explicit historical facts on its side, though, because life on the brutal planet has reduced historical records to dust. So the argument continues.

In any case, if Vulcans learned about genetics before they did about starflight, then naturally their science would have been formulated to accommodate the facts of their genetic inheritance. Their first or second hypothesis probably would not be that they themselves were alien to their own world. So there'd be likely to exist several highly logical scientific doctrines that explain the Vulcan humanoids as a native lifeform quite regardless of the observable genetic facts of the matter.

On the issue of how long a "generation" is for a Romulan "generation ship", the current definition only pertains to the average age difference between a parent and a child. How long the parent lives after the child is born is irrelevant to the definition. The age difference between Spock and Sarek would be the important thing here, then - as long as we remember that Spock was only the second child of Sarek (as far as we know).

We know that this time difference is 65 years. We don't know Sybok's age, though, and with Vulcans it's very difficult to tell by looks alone. Perhaps the Vulcan generation is 50-60 years long. But perhaps it's much shorter than that? Tuvok was born in 2264 and had children no sooner than his marriage at 2304 as far as we know; by 2374, his firstborn had his first child. Again, the average might hover a bit over the half-century mark, then. T'Pol, born in 2088, hadn't bred by 2154, but may have been about to.

Any other interesting datapoints out there?

Timo Saloniemi
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top