hmmm

[captcalhoun]

You know, this may have something to do with Doctor Who. If the rumors are true and SJS is in the finale of S4, then they may be holding off news of the renewal in order to maintain the suspense. Suppose for a moment that SJS is, along with several others, like Donna, Jack, Martha, and

Rose






in jeopardy. If we know SJA was to return then that would spoil the jeopardy for her character.

I'd point out that Christmas specials have generally typified/foreshadowed ongoing events and themes in the succeeding season:

ChristmasInvasion: Earth invaded by an alien army. Season 2 finale, that very thing happened.

The Runaway Bride: An ancient enemy of the Time Lords is resurrected with her "children." The Doctor travels into the past to discover the secret and then returns to the present to defeat the enemy. Well, that's the general drift of Season 3's finale: The Doctor travels to the distant future, not the past, and the Master is resurrected. The Doctor travels to present day to defeat him. The Earth is invaded by the Master's "children."

VOTD: The Doctor's friends are systematically eliminated as the story progresses. If the rumor is true and there is a string of companions (see above) in the finale, then that would make sense: they are all put into jeopardy by the Big Bad, who is himself, somehow foreshadowed by Max Capricorn's character. Think about it.

so, Deathdealer was reasonably accurate in speculating VOTD would foreshadow the S4 finale, with Davros (one-eyed bloke in a wheelchair commanding a mechanical army) putting all the Doctor's companions in danger...

anyone reckon Moffat'll continue this thread of giving away the season finale in the previous Christmas spesh?

 

[diankra]

You know, this may have something to do with Doctor Who. If the rumors are true and SJS is in the finale of S4, then they may be holding off news of the renewal in order to maintain the suspense. Suppose for a moment that SJS is, along with several others, like Donna, Jack, Martha, and

Rose






in jeopardy. If we know SJA was to return then that would spoil the jeopardy for her character.

I'd point out that Christmas specials have generally typified/foreshadowed ongoing events and themes in the succeeding season:

ChristmasInvasion: Earth invaded by an alien army. Season 2 finale, that very thing happened.

The Runaway Bride: An ancient enemy of the Time Lords is resurrected with her "children." The Doctor travels into the past to discover the secret and then returns to the present to defeat the enemy. Well, that's the general drift of Season 3's finale: The Doctor travels to the distant future, not the past, and the Master is resurrected. The Doctor travels to present day to defeat him. The Earth is invaded by the Master's "children."

VOTD: The Doctor's friends are systematically eliminated as the story progresses. If the rumor is true and there is a string of companions (see above) in the finale, then that would make sense: they are all put into jeopardy by the Big Bad, who is himself, somehow foreshadowed by Max Capricorn's character. Think about it.

so, Deathdealer was reasonably accurate in speculating VOTD would foreshadow the S4 finale, with Davros (one-eyed bloke in a wheelchair commanding a mechanical army) putting all the Doctor's companions in danger...

anyone reckon Moffat'll continue this thread of giving away the season finale in the previous Christmas spesh?

Well no, as the Moffat is running the 2010 series, whereas the Christmas special is RTD's farewell show. Though they'll obviously talk to make it all mesh together.

 

[Starkers]

Well some of those similarities are quite interesting, but some are (to quote Danny Golver in Lethal Weapon) 'Pretty F*cking thin.'

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The comparisons are a bit thin, but I did think of Davros when we saw Max Capricorn.

 

[Chris227]

^John Lumic was also sort of a Davros homage as well.

 

[Brendan Moody]

Per RTD's new book, Max Capricorn looked like he did because the reveal would have been lame if what emerged from the sealed chamber was an ordinary businessman, and because it would have looked odd to have Astrid kill an ordinary man with a forklift.

 

[Tomalak]

Whereas killing a disabled man was perfectly acceptable.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

And why did Astrid have to kill Max with a forklift?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

And why did Astrid have to kill Max with a forklift?

She didn't have any banana on her.

 

[Brendan Moody]

Whereas killing a disabled man was perfectly acceptable.

An interesting idea, but I think it's the boxlike nature of Capricorn's conveyance rather than the fact that he's disabled that makes the image less "ridiculously violent." His being a cyborg is just a way of putting him inside a machine, one that also ties into other plot points from the episode.

And why did Astrid have to kill Max with a forklift?

She didn't have to, obviously, but RTD liked the forklift, and it would seem to require something more dramatic than, say, using her hands to shove him off a ledge.

 

[Sci]

And why did Astrid have to kill Max with a forklift?

Presumably because RTD needed for Astrid to have a reason to be forced to sacrifice her own life as she defeated the bad guy and saved the Doctor in order to continue the theme of the Doctor losing people he loves.

 

[The]

In other words, horribly contrived. Like the entire episode...

 

[Brendan Moody]

Well, no. I'd ask how in the heck it's any more contrived than any other resolution would be,since all the elements are set up in advance and perfectly plausible with the Who framework, but I'm assuming "contrived" is being used, as so many critical terms are, as a meaningful-sounding equivalent for "I didn't like it."

In context, though, Sci, I believe Emh is asking why with a forklift, not looking for thematic analysis.

 

[The]

Well, no. I'd ask how in the heck it's any more contrived than any other resolution would be,since all the elements are set up in advance and perfectly plausible with the Who framework, but I'm assuming "contrived" is being used, as so many critical terms are, as a meaningful-sounding equivalent for "I didn't like it."

• con·trived
  
  /kənˈtraɪvd/ Pronunciation Key - [kuh
  
  n-trahyvd] –adjective obviously planned or forced; artificial; strained: a contrived story.
• Also See: Voyage of the Damned

 

[Sci]

Well, no. I'd ask how in the heck it's any more contrived than any other resolution would be,since all the elements are set up in advance and perfectly plausible with the Who framework, but I'm assuming "contrived" is being used, as so many critical terms are, as a meaningful-sounding equivalent for "I didn't like it."

• con·trived
  
  /kənˈtraɪvd/ Pronunciation Key - [kuh
  
  n-trahyvd] –adjective obviously planned or forced; artificial; strained: a contrived story.
• Also See: Voyage of the Damned

Waitaminute. You're telling me that there's anything contrived about an episode of a television series starring a human-looking alien who can change his face whenever the actor who plays him quits and travels through time and space in wooden box that's incredibly cheap to produce for the prop department wherein the hero comes across an alien spaceship manned by human-looking aliens who've designed their spaceship to look like the Titanic?!?!?!

Personally, I don't care. Almost all of Doctor Who is, frankly, a bit contrived, but so long as it works, I'm okay with that. and "Voyage of the Damned" works.

 

[The]

Heh. I accept your opinion on the matter. But, once you accept the basic concept of Doctor Who, you can't fall back on it as an excuse for poor writing and production.

VotD is, for me (for me!) one of the worst episodes of Doctor Who ever made. It's up there with Fear Her and The Doctor's Daughter. Every scene, every character, every moment, and every occurrence in that episode is so completely forced and cliched, I could have timed it on a soap-opera-egg-timer. When Tennant walks up with his little biography about how awesome he is (I'm The Doctor, I'm a Time Lord, etc., etc.) , I was "supposed" to get chills and feel "awe and cool" (like the other actors we were shown were instructed to act). That was the intent of the moment, and the cinematography, and the music. And all I got was offended that RTD thought that was supposed to be impressive writing. How silly and forced.

And when Astrid, a brand-new celebrity character with no discerning character traits, other than the required "Instant-In-Love-With-Doctor"-trait that generally all women in modern-Who must have, has to sacrifice her life to save this man she barely knows--....I mean, loves so much...by using a forklift (in a "kewl" staggered-shot and pithy tagline), I was "supposed" to feel angst and regret and remorse and how awesome she was, and how awesome and kewl The Doctor is........and all I felt was my stomach turning from the insulting cheese of mediocrity.

This was contrived...cliched Doctor Who at it's very worst. VotD is a perfect example of the standard Hollywood-ization of any show. It's a script-by-committee, written to appeal as generically to every demographic as possible, forcibly sacrificing any inherent substance or genuine emotion it might have provoked if given the ability to do so.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm glad I will never have to again...

 

[captcalhoun]

cheesy, contrived and frankly rather insulting in its messianic overtones. christ-pose Doctor with the Host was worse than tinkerbellDoctor

 

[The]

christ-pose Doctor with the Host was worse than tinkerbellDoctor

Completely agreed. Attempting an artistic flair is one thing. But, leave the agendas out of it, and just entertain me. Don't try and gloss fluff with an insta-depth metaphor or allegory. It will generally come off as pretentious and lazy...

 

[Sci]

I, on the other hand, recently re-watched "Voyage of the Damned" with a friend who's going through Doctor Who for the first time and thought that the whole thing worked great through and through.

Though my favorite bit remains:

"So across the British Channel are Great France and Great Germany?"

"No, just France and Germany. Only Britain is Great."

 

[Starkers]

That is the best line

I kinda fall in the middle, I like a lot of VOTD, but would agree it's a bit much in places and much as I love Kylie (especially in THAT outfit) I agree with The, the fact that any woman the guy meets (aside from wonderful, wonderful Donna) seems to fall head over heels for him is a bit laboured. If they keep going the way they're going James Bond will be going to the Doctor for tips on scoring