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Has America Jumped The Shark...

K'riq Sa

Commodore
I don't understand why they keep giving out billions in Taxpayer money to these mega corps, and banks, and expect it somehow to trickle down to the masses. We have a Small Business Administration in place, why are we not giving out loans directly to small local business? Why are there not some sort of Micro loan program established like in Africa, a bridge loan as it were, to help give assistance to those families who are in need TODAY!.

People are losing their houses now, can't feed their families tonight, have no income of any sort coming in, and don't foresee anything coming in anytime soon. We may need to replenish our job market, one job at a time, but we can't because the banks are not giving any credit to small enterprises at this time. They were given all that bailout money to inject into the economy, only, by their own account, kept the cash in their own pockets, to insure their liquidity, just in case things go horribly wrong.

I see the Welfare system coming back online, in large part because there is nothing else. Why hasn't some of that money been channeled into that? Right now, I think they give you $100 in food stamps, and a check for $280 a month. Who, in God's name could, live off that, realistically? And I'm not talking the homeless now, I'm talking about someone like "YOU" and me. We have already been in limbo, by and large, for the last 4 months, and was held over a barrel, and forceably gang raped by the oil companies ($5 a gallon gas, remember that a few short months ago?), our government enties, giant corporations, our own banks, and anyone else have some vicarious access to our wallets. Let's not even talk about the ilk like Berney Madoff, and now a host of others that are beginning to come to light, who have literaly fleeced people, outright in front of the government watchdogs. We finally looking up from our Reality TV, to see that our own situations have become a lot more like a "End of Civilization" type movie, playing out in real life, right before our very eyes. Now, not only are things getting worse, we are being told to buckle our seatbelts, and settle in, cause it's gonna be a long and bumpy ride.

So I guess I'm asking, if I can see this seemingly simple solutions, and can figure out things to get money directly into the hands of individuals, why have all these people with the friken knowledge of Moses, can't figure out some things to help, on the micro level where it's needed?







K'riq Sa, Son of the Third Base, Holder of the Sacred Somebreo of Holdfast, Heir to the Holy Smoke Rings of Betazed
 
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I don't feel sorry for those losing their houses when lending standards were loosened and enabled those who shouldn't have been able to buy a house to get a house.
 
Well for starters, micro-loans of up to $5,000 should be made available for people who want to start a small business or those of us who HAVE a small business but want to take it to the next level.

That would create jobs, inject tax revenue into the system and get goods and services moving again.

Next step would be to declare all consumer debt null and void, and summarily close the credit-reporting agencies. Wipe the slate clean for EVERYONE.

Nationalize the banks, re-charter all banks as savings and lending institutions. If you want to play the markets you go to an investment firm. Create laws that prevent banks and investment firms from merging/forming partnerships/whatever. KEEP THEM SEPARATE

Finally, create a blanket worker protection law providing a universal minimum guaranteed wage and protect the worker's rights in the workplace... and provide universal healthcare for everyone. Basic level service.

In other words, tear down the establishment and start over. Rich people kind of object to sharing the wealth they've hoarded... they only want to hoard more. That's why we are in the situation we are in.
 
Next step would be to declare all consumer debt null and void, and summarily close the credit-reporting agencies. Wipe the slate clean for EVERYONE.

Nationalize the banks, re-charter all banks as savings and lending institutions. If you want to play the markets you go to an investment firm. Create laws that prevent banks and investment firms from merging/forming partnerships/whatever. KEEP THEM SEPARATE

Finally, create a blanket worker protection law providing a universal minimum guaranteed wage and protect the worker's rights in the workplace... and provide universal healthcare for everyone. Basic level service.

Totally in agreement here. Look at what's happened to poor Iceland !
I would only add that student loans should also be dismissed. Saddling people with debt because they are trying to better themselves is ridiculous.
 
Next step would be to declare all consumer debt null and void, and summarily close the credit-reporting agencies. Wipe the slate clean for EVERYONE.

Nationalize the banks, re-charter all banks as savings and lending institutions. If you want to play the markets you go to an investment firm. Create laws that prevent banks and investment firms from merging/forming partnerships/whatever. KEEP THEM SEPARATE

Finally, create a blanket worker protection law providing a universal minimum guaranteed wage and protect the worker's rights in the workplace... and provide universal healthcare for everyone. Basic level service.

Totally in agreement here. Look at what's happened to poor Iceland !
I would only add that student loans should also be dismissed. Saddling people with debt because they are trying to better themselves is ridiculous.

While I agree in concept, the reality is that that debt has to do somewhere. And if they can't get it back via repayment of debt, what you'll see is a jump in "Feed" and "Interest" in future lending, as well as inflation across the board-- especially in big ticket items, like cars, electronics, appliances-- as retail try to recoup the loss.
 
well, I don't think the government is really going to fix this with the stimulus package either. For years now we have been buying things on credit and now that is coming back to bite us in the butt.
A lot of people and businesses made a lot of foolish choices and overextended themselves, and that will take awhile to overcome.

I don't know about anyone else, but I was surprised to hear that businesses are suffering because they can no longer take out loans for the payroll of all things!

Maybe I am naive in the business world, it shocks me to think that a standard practice in corporate America is to take out a loan to pay your employees.
 
Ha ha! I thought of the student loan idea also. It would be nice for the government to help those folks who are trained in some skill and who are very productive members of society instead of helping the very people who screwed up in the first place. In my case, I owe well over 40,000 dollars, have a good job, and barely have enough to make my rent. If they reduced my loans or something, I might just go out and buy a new car or Playstation 3 :techman:. That'll help the economy.
 
Maybe I am naive in the business world, it shocks me to think that a standard practice in corporate America is to take out a loan to pay your employees.

This is what destroyed the sheet-metal company that I worked at. He was borrowing every week to make payroll. Not just from banks but from anyone he could pry a dollar from.

Managed to create the illusion that we were doing very well but when the well dried up it was all over for us.

I understand that in this area close to three quarters of the small manufacturing companies operate like this, that's why there has been very little hiring activity at all in this sector. I wish I could get some hard facts on this, to me the idea of running your business on credit to avoid "annoying" those accounts that owe you money... Absurd.

Apparently, and this is the story that is handed down... I have heard several versions of this with either Kodak, Xerox or Bosch-And-Lomb as the punchline...

...apparently some little well-known company that "everyone knows" had a lucrative contract with one of those three big corporations. Big corporation of your choice hands well-known company that "everyone knows" a huge contract and that little company has to borrow money to make the order. They sell the product to Big Corporation on 90-net, meaning you pay what you owe within 90 day. Time goes by, Big corporation orders more and more and more on 90 day terms without paying... 90 days turn into 180, 180 into 270, finally a year goes by and little company finally sends collections in to get the owed money and Big Corporation suddenly pulls ALL contracts away from Little Company causing them to collapse.

Now I see several problems, and running on credit while waiting for someone to pay you back is not the answer. 1) You should have never over-extended yourself in the first place 2) you should have gone to collections sooner and 3) you should have stopped production when Big Company came to you and demanded more product on the same terms... and 4) any half-way intelligent business man would have realized The Game being played here and avoided the play all together.

My little company that I run out of my living room... I expect cash up front. I'm in the business of making stuff not extending credit or giving away things for free in the hopes that you'll pay me "someday." :rolleyes:
 
Maybe I am naive in the business world, it shocks me to think that a standard practice in corporate America is to take out a loan to pay your employees.

This is not an uncommon practice, and mainly addresses cashflow/billing cycle problems.

As I understand it, these are usually very short term loans.
 
My little company that I run out of my living room... I expect cash up front. I'm in the business of making stuff not extending credit or giving away things for free in the hopes that you'll pay me "someday."

That is what killed one of the papers I worked for. In the early days the owner gave away ad-space for free for all local business. I tried to talk him down off of it, he said "No, no, no when I start charging they'll stay". Sure enough 6 months in he started charging, and nearly every advertiser and all the "big ticket" ones pulled their ads. 5 months later, we're closing up shop cause there wasn't enough coming in and his credit line and savines were bone dry.
 
Maybe I am naive in the business world, it shocks me to think that a standard practice in corporate America is to take out a loan to pay your employees.

This is not an uncommon practice, and mainly addresses cashflow/billing cycle problems.

As I understand it, these are usually very short term loans.

True, I imagine they would be. Maybe I am too cautious, but I would never do that.... :)
 
I think I'll just cash out my lines of credit and flee to the Caribbean where I will survive on fish and coconuts and enjoying the sight of my beautiful wife in tiny bikinis.
 
Totally in agreement here. Look at what's happened to poor Iceland !



Theres a joke going around here in the Emerald isle-"What's the difference between Iceland and Ireland?
"One letter and about six months";)

This recession is only a couple of months old,but I've kinda had enough of it already.
Bored now......and also a little scared.:(
 
Totally in agreement here. Look at what's happened to poor Iceland !



Theres a joke going around here in the Emerald isle-"What's the difference between Iceland and Ireland?
"One letter and about six months";)

This recession is only a couple of months old,but I've kinda had enough of it already.
Bored now......and also a little scared.:(

Sounds like you have a Depression there, might want to cheer up. Remember, the ZOMGLOLATOMIC-DOOM RING hasn't been repaired and fired up yet, we could still be headed twords a fiery atomic death sooner than you think! That'll solve EVERYTHING wouldn't it? :D
 
Maybe I am naive in the business world, it shocks me to think that a standard practice in corporate America is to take out a loan to pay your employees.

This is not an uncommon practice, and mainly addresses cashflow/billing cycle problems.

As I understand it, these are usually very short term loans.

It's not uncommon at all, but I do think it speaks of a business that is potentially vulnerable to crisis. Lots of business have rather shaky models and practices. Recessions weed the more shaky practices out, and booms allow them to hang around and worsen.

Of course, no business is immune to a really severe crisis, but IMO and on a theoretical level, I don't think it's a bad thing that there's going to be a shake-out of some of the more fragile models/practices.
 
Wiping out everyone's consumer debt would be irresponsible. It would essentially be a tax against retailers who provided you the opportunity to make payments, rather than a lump sum.

Unfortunately when people don't have to own up to their mistakes, they often repreat them. They learn nothing; things go just get someone to bail you out. One of the reasons you can only declare bankruptcy is to prevent people from getting into debt and then letting them off the hook so they can repeat the pattern.

I had a $50,000 debt which I incurred, I was responsible for getting in over my head, so I had the responsibility of fixing it. It took me seven years of doing 2-3 jobs at a time to pay off the debt and to live within my means at the same time.

One thing I learned, was I needed to be more careful about getting myself into the situation in the first place. Since eliminating my debt, I've always paid off every debt within the month.

And since when did welfare go off-line; people have been collecting welfare throughout the 1990s and 2000s?
 
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