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Harry Kim's rape

Paul Weaver

Vice Admiral
Premium Member
In Season 7 "Prophecy", a Klingon woman attempts to rape poor Mr Kim. The Doctor is most unimpressed.

(Kim enters, holding a cloth to his cheek.)
EMH: What happened to you?
KIM: I cut myself shaving.
EMH: Is that a bite mark?
KIM: One of the Klingons attacked me.
EMH: Did you do something to provoke him?
KIM: Not him, her. And she wasn't provoked. She was aroused.
EMH: Ah. I'm not surprised. I've studied the section on Klingon mating rituals in their cultural database.
KIM: Then maybe you can tell me how to convince a female twice my size that I'm not interested.
EMH: Hmm. You probably can't.
KIM: Great.
EMH: As I understand it, you have two options. Kill her, or mate with her. Since the first option is clearly unacceptable.
(He hands Kim a PADD.)
KIM: What's this?
EMH: Authorisation for you to engage in intimate relations with a member of an alien species. Be sure to get the Captain's approval as well.

In the end, Neelix saves the day.

Had this been a Klingon Male and a human Female, I wonder if there would have been the same reaction.
 
A Klingon male beginning unwanted courtship towards a human female would be a Klingon male on his knees, reading poetry, weaving, trying to avoid being hit by furniture that is not being thrown.

It's possible that a sexual assault on this scale may be too subtle for a human female to notice.
 
Huh, forget about that part.....

But yeah, totally wrong. No matter the gender, when someone is being harassed, a doctor shouldn't shrug it of and tell the person to just 'get 'r done'.
 
I'd stopped watching by this point and Kim was about as interesting as a bulkhead so probably wouldn't have paid much attention to it anyway. Though this is just further duming down of Klingon culture, granted I'm not a huge fan of it in the first place but the whole "only options being a. murder or b. what they want" is just really dull and unimaginative. Klingons have a ceremony and principle to pretty much everything, so I'm sure there's some ritual Kim could do to get out of it but let her keep her honour--though if she's going after Kim and then Neelix she's obviously suffering for space madness.
 
Hmm, couldn't one just as readily argue that Harry, a Starfleet officer and legally bound to express equal regard for other cultures, displayed prejudice and intolerance for Klingon culture by snubbing and trivializing her custom? Culturally-relativistic societies are always admonishing others to stare at a spot on the wall and "think of England" when it comes to their own laissez-faire indifference to others' problems - so doesn't that "superior" abstraction of one's own culture necessitate a certain amount of dispassion for one's own values?

Oh wait - that's right. The Prime Directive only applies when others are in need.... Just like in Prime Factors when the society made its laws clear - or in the Swarm when the aliens made their borders clear - the Prime Directive is just a technicality when it comes to having your own Starfleet way....


But if you want to call it unwanted sexual regard, if Harry had taken it seriously the Doc would certainly have too. Harry was not distressed. He was mildly discomfited by the distraction. I don't recall him saying the word "rape" once. He could have.

And yes, no means no - so one wonders if he even said that much to the Klingon woman.

The scene was played for humor, not drama. Now if you want to find a bone to pick about rape, how about Blood Fever, when the boys sit back and watch B'Elanna fight tooth and claw for her right not to be raped by a deranged Vulcan.
 
Now if you want to find a bone to pick about rape, how about Blood Fever, when the boys sit back and watch B'Elanna fight tooth and claw for her right not to be raped by a deranged Vulcan.
Never mind that, what about everything else prior to that point in the episode, where Chakotay and Tuvok were basically telling Tom "you have to take sexual advantage of B'Elanna for her own good." Tom objects on the grounds that it isn't right, which it isn't, it actually does count as a definition of rape. But Chakotay and Tuvok were all "don't matter if it's right, it's got to be done."
 
^ In the case of Paris and B'Elanna, it wouldn't have been rape. B'Elanna was becoming dangerous and SHE was the one showing strong desire of sexual engagement. There didn't seem to be any other way to solve the problem but for Paris to "give in." So it wasn't Tom taking sexual advantage, but simply not resisting. He was though, and for the right reasons -- he didn't want to ruin their relationship. Usually if a woman is highly intoxicated, it's a case of her being unaware of what's happening and a man could take advantage -- and that would be dead wrong.

All Harry Kim had to say was that he was already involved with someone else. Wouldn't it be a dishonor of a Klingon woman to seek out a man already involved?
 
Hmm, couldn't one just as readily argue that Harry, a Starfleet officer and legally bound to express equal regard for other cultures, displayed prejudice and intolerance for Klingon culture by snubbing and trivializing her custom? Culturally-relativistic societies are always admonishing others to stare at a spot on the wall and "think of England" when it comes to their own laissez-faire indifference to others' problems - so doesn't that "superior" abstraction of one's own culture necessitate a certain amount of dispassion for one's own values?

Oh wait - that's right. The Prime Directive only applies when others are in need.... Just like in Prime Factors when the society made its laws clear - or in the Swarm when the aliens made their borders clear - the Prime Directive is just a technicality when it comes to having your own Starfleet way....


But if you want to call it unwanted sexual regard, if Harry had taken it seriously the Doc would certainly have too. Harry was not distressed. He was mildly discomfited by the distraction. I don't recall him saying the word "rape" once. He could have.

And yes, no means no - so one wonders if he even said that much to the Klingon woman.

The scene was played for humor, not drama. Now if you want to find a bone to pick about rape, how about Blood Fever, when the boys sit back and watch B'Elanna fight tooth and claw for her right not to be raped by a deranged Vulcan.
No doubt, Harry did NOT say no. He'd be worried about hurting the Lady's feelings.
 
If he didn't .. then is it?

:cardie:

Yes?

There's no ambiguity there. It's not a philosophical matter. Rape is someone knowingly having or forcing intercourse, where they or a reasonable person would know that the other party has not given valid (aka fully knowledgable and freely given) consent.

Victims can't retroactively consent, and the actions of the rapist is what makes a rape. I can't believe I still have to frigging say that in bloody 2017.
 
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Remember that time Lena Hyena tried to rape Bob Hoskins in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"? Horrific. Completely inappropriate for a movie aimed at children.
 
Does non consensual foreplay fall under the rape umbrella, which is a step bellow what happened.

She bit him.

Is biting more intimate than kissing?

Although by human standards, that's probably what happened.

An unwanted kiss (with teeth).

It's not like she broke both both his legs, blew him, and kept the sperm for later.
 
Harry could have defined it as attempted rape if he wanted to. He didn't. The scene played it out not in that context.

Rape can be defined and is serious enough not to be diluted by situations which are not rape, though I think there is also an importance regards attempted rape.. Harry was bitten by another and that in itself is objectionable but he chose as a course of action medical treatment. Of course there is a societal difficulty men have when a woman is an aggressor, he is almost made to feel lesser if he is the one who might be overpowered.
 
Harry could have defined it as attempted rape if he wanted to. .

That's not how it works. People 'define' away shit all the time. It's part of the reason why police (the State/Crown/whatever) prosecute criminals, and don't rely on victims to do it.

And fine: it was sexual assault, attempted rape, with a side helping of coercion and intimidation. Here they're all the same charge, but I'll admit that other jurisdictions do seperate them.

You might be able to argue it down to indecent assault occasioning GBH, but that's like comparing an amputated leg to an amputated foot. Not as bad, but it's still pretty damn bad.

Harry was bitten by another and that in itself is objectionable but he chose as a course of action medical treatment.

Yeah, that happened.

What's it's got to do with the topic?

Does non consensual foreplay fall under the rape umbrella, which is a step bellow what happened.

Depends on where you are, and what you do.

For eg. Here, a non consensual fingering will nab you a rape charge.

A bite and grope would net you an indecent assault, with additional charges for assault/battery/etc.
 
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