Happy to See...

[2 of 10]

I was VERY happy to see Gul Dukat revert to his Cardassian from in the final scene of DS-9. After all the very memorable episodes with the REAL Dukat to end the series with Dukat posing as a Bajorian just would not have seemed right. I was never a fan of the whole Dukat/Winn relationship, it just did not seem right. Gul DuKat was one of the best bad guys in Trek, and to end his "career" as a Bajorian would have really sucked, any thoughts???

 

[JNG]

Well, you're right that it would have felt strange for him to play his final scenes in a form other than that in which we came to know him.

However, the solution, with its Dungeons and Dragons-like magic bolts flying around changing things, was somewhat less than ideal for me as well; I couldn't help but feel as if we'd stepped out of the science fiction realm for a minute.

 

[2 of 10]

^^
I TOTALLY Agree with you, your points not withstanding I was still happy to see the Dukat I grew to know and Hate...

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I agree...as horribly evil as he was, somehow it seemed fitting for him to go to his demise in his true form, especially with that kind of battle between gods and monsters.

 

[Damask]

However, the solution, with its Dungeons and Dragons-like magic bolts flying around changing things, was somewhat less than ideal for me as well; I couldn't help but feel as if we'd stepped out of the science fiction realm for a minute.

Or into an episode of TNG/Voy when Q pops up?

 

[Ezri II]

Strange, he did not end looking like a Bajorian. Still, he ended up with the race of people that the Bajorian's feared. So, he did end his life on Bajor in the fire caves. Oh well.

 

[indranee]

that entire arc was moronic.

 

[Marie1]

that entire arc was moronic.

I wouldn't say moronic. I found it creepy- but its just like Dukat- the whole thing!! Just ewwy.

 

[indranee]

I hated it for the opposite reason. I loved Dukat -- big, badass, Cardassian Dukat of old -- and this was the worst character study done on one of Trek's best-written (before this) and best-acted villains.

i.e., m-o-r-o-n-i-c.

 

[Marie1]

I hated it for the opposite reason. I loved Dukat -- big, badass, Cardassian Dukat of old -- and this was the worst character study done on one of Trek's best-written (before this) and best-acted villains.

i.e., m-o-r-o-n-i-c.

But isn't that just it? He was a great terrible person! Whats more awful after what he did than to sleep with a Bajoran, earn her trust, to get her to go against her own gods and people, while appearing like a people he wanted to eliminate? Mind you- I didn't like it- I found it kinda gross. But since he was insane... it seems like something an off his rocker Dukat, who was already deluded would do. The only way for this to play out another way would be if Dukat was as sane as he was before S of A... I think.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The vital mistake with S7 Dukat was to make him believe in the pagh-wraiths. If he had been his usual self-centered persona, manipulating everyone around him to further his goals, this plotline could have actually been okay. He'd see the pagh-wraiths as just another powerful group like the Dominion who he could lead around by the nose.

Of course, he couldn't control the Dominion and his arrogant assumption that he could do better with the pagh-wraiths would turn into an even bigger disaster, but it would have been consistent with the character.

 

[indranee]

I hated it for the opposite reason. I loved Dukat -- big, badass, Cardassian Dukat of old -- and this was the worst character study done on one of Trek's best-written (before this) and best-acted villains.

i.e., m-o-r-o-n-i-c.

But isn't that just it? He was a great terrible person! Whats more awful after what he did than to sleep with a Bajoran, earn her trust, to get her to go against her own gods and people, while appearing like a people he wanted to eliminate? Mind you- I didn't like it- I found it kinda gross. But since he was insane... it seems like something an off his rocker Dukat, who was already deluded would do. The only way for this to play out another way would be if Dukat was as sane as he was before S of A... I think.

exactly. moronic.

Dukat may have been wicked, but he had an enormous ego. and that very ego would not have -- had he been in his right mind -- allowed him to do what you just outlined.

good writing is "plot follows character", not the other way around. this was the other way around. taking Dukat and making him into a caricature of not even himself... *shakes head*.

hence, moronic. as in... bad writing.

 

[thirteenth]

I miss the "good" Dukat from series four's 'Return to Grace', 'Indiscretion', and 'The Way of the Warrior'. I know, I'm weird, but still..

 

[indranee]

^ me too. that Dukat was drawn in shades of gray. hence his popularity. hence his crowning, even now, as one of the best villains of Trek. the Dukat of S7 was black and white to suit the writers' need to find a villain that worked for the plot. their loss, our loss. think he would be dubbed one of the best villains of Trek if he had been S7 Dukat all along? not a chance in hell.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

^ me too. that Dukat was drawn in shades of gray. hence his popularity. hence his crowning, even now, as one of the best villains of Trek. the Dukat of S7 was black and white to suit the writers' need to find a villain that worked for the plot. their loss, our loss. think he would be dubbed one of the best villains of Trek if he had been S7 Dukat all along? not a chance in hell.

But you know why I think he still keeps that award even though the whole Red-Eye thing is still so controversial?

I don't know about anybody else, but I think that even in the Red-Eye stage, there was STILL such good acting on Marc Alaimo's part that a lot could be forgiven. Many will likely disagree, but I think Mr. Alaimo really did his homework on cult leaders for "Covenant"--and that episode really sent chills down my spine! The character might've been insane by then, but the intelligence, the manipulative ability, and all that had made Dukat such a creepy villain was still there in full force.

 

[indranee]

all I am saying is that whatever he was in Season 7 -- it didn't follow the character's arc thus far. it came totally out of left field. it wasn't Dukat.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

He'd cracked. He'd gone over the edge. But as screwed-up as Dukat was past that point, I still think Mr. Alaimo really prevented the character from going down the drain and I give him a LOT of credit.

 

[indranee]

with that I agree. TPTB were lucky to have gotten Alaimo to play the role. it'd have been a laugh and a half in anyone else's hands.

 

[Seven of Five]

Ooh, Dukat threads everywhere! I just posted in another thread, saying how Dukat's potential was squandered after becoming a Pah-Wraith cultist. Classic Dukat will be found in seasons 1-5, and it's that Dukat that is such a popular villain. I agree though that Marc Alaimo's performances were always brilliant, and even the lesser-quality plots he worked with were lifted somewhat with what he brought to the table!

I loved Alaimo in the TNG episode 'The Wounded' - the character he played had indications of the chartacter that Dukat would become, and it's certainly one of my fave TNG episodes.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I loved Alaimo in the TNG episode 'The Wounded' - the character he played had indications of the chartacter that Dukat would become, and it's certainly one of my fave TNG episodes.

I think that whole ensemble in "The Wounded" did very well.

Macet seemed like a very strong commander, one very in-tune with the situation he was dealing with, and who really knew how to walk the line of looking out for his people's interests without setting off a war. Very savvy, intelligent, and if you ask me, pretty restrained considering the provocation Maxwell was dealing out (AND a few very untoward remarks by Picard that should've gotten the captain laid out on the deck, but didn't). Though personally, I think Macet came across as a more levelheaded guy than Dukat, and probably with better motives.

Daro really did wonderfully at foreshadowing some later characters like Tekeny Ghemor, Joret Dal, and Natima Lang--the kind of thoughtful Cardassian who seemed haunted by the things he saw in his past, and who wanted to reconcile on some small level where he could.

And Telle...well, I think that the "stereotypical" Cardassian was based off of him: arrogant, sneaky, and dangerously nationalistic. Had they ALL been like him, I think they would've ended up as no more than a bad Klingon copy, or other alien of the week. But as part of this ensemble, he worked out very well.