GTTS & New Technologies - [Spoilers]

[Technobuilder]

Just wanted to add my two cents and give a hearty thanks to Christopher for pretty much (in my eyes) salvaging the wreckage caused by 'Before Dishonor'.

I've said my peace in that regard so I'll turn towards something I'm extremely glad was included. "The Voyager Technologies".

I honestly wasn't sure if they'd ever be brought up again, and I have to say that the way that they were discussed was great to see.

Transphasic Torpedoes are still Borg Killers, but for how long? Kind've giving us an ace-in-the-hole, but not super borg-killers at the same time.

Slipstream Technologies being studied and adapted for use by the Federation seemed like the most topical technology worth of note when Voyager returned, yeah they couldn't make it work consistently, but then again they were just one lone starship without the R&D facilities, not to mention the resources or the StarFleet CORPS of Engineers to turn to. So the fact that this hasn't been forgotten is wonderful. Of course, It's really the only way the Federation will be able to continue growing as it has in the past with all it's members still able to interact closely and in a timely manner. The Edge of the Known Universe is starting to get a whole lot closer. Now granted, development, refinement, testing, and fleet-wide implementation of this new drive technology will take years if not decades to really take seed, but again, things are moving forward.

The only thing I didn't agree with right off the top of my head was that the Deployable Armor systems were all-out useless. I mean, sure The Borg adapted, but there are still a heck of a lot of other interstellar powers that haven't and therefore it's use doesn't seem so far fetched being integrated into existing starship designs as a way to supplement their defensive abilities and extend their lifetime usefullness. So I hope that only the fact that it wouldn't do much againt the Borg is not the only reason it isn't being considered for implemenation. For example, in shuttlecraft.

Especially since Armor makes more sense from a Federation Viewpoint of Exploration and Peaceful contact than more overtly offensive weapons might and therefore I hope to see at least mention of the Deployable Armor in the future.

 

[Christopher]

Just wanted to add my two cents and give a hearty thanks to Christopher for pretty much (in my eyes) salvaging the wreckage caused by 'Before Dishonor'.

Thanks!

I've said my peace in that regard so I'll turn towards something I'm extremely glad was included. "The Voyager Technologies".

I honestly wasn't sure if they'd ever be brought up again, and I have to say that the way that they were discussed was great to see.

There will be more followup on these in Destiny and the books that follow.

The only thing I didn't agree with right off the top of my head was that the Deployable Armor systems were all-out useless. I mean, sure The Borg adapted, but there are still a heck of a lot of other interstellar powers that haven't and therefore it's use doesn't seem so far fetched being integrated into existing starship designs as a way to supplement their defensive abilities and extend their lifetime usefullness. So I hope that only the fact that it wouldn't do much againt the Borg is not the only reason it isn't being considered for implemenation. For example, in shuttlecraft.

I figure the reason it isn't used is because it's very inefficient. It was valuable against the Borg because it was something they hadn't adapted to yet, but in ordinary circumstances it probably doesn't have any great advantages over deflector shields. After all, presumably the armor has to be replicated/materialized out of matter held in reserve within the ship, and since it's regenerative, that means there must be extra matter being replicated to replace what's ablated away. That strikes me as a very energy-intensive process. Also, it probably undermines the ship's performance in some ways, being encased in armor. I imagine it would limit sensors, inhibit the use of maneuvering thrusters, etc.

In fact, one major, major problem with the idea just occurred to me. Just about the most important thing for a starship to have is heat radiators. Space is cold, but vacuum is a superb insulator, so heat can easily build up to dangerous levels within a spaceship unless it has radiators with large enough surface area to dissipate that heat at an adequate rate. Now, Starfleet vessels have never been designed with radiators, which is a major conceptual flaw (though one shared by 99% of film/TV spaceships), but tech fans have engaged in speculations that some features on the surfaces of Starfleet vessels could be heat radiators of some highly efficient design. But if you encase the ship in armor, there's nowhere for the heat to go -- and heat would build up very quickly in a combat situation. Indeed, the replicator/transporter systems needed to create and regenerate the armor would themselves generate plenty of waste heat.

The thing about armor is that it's often more trouble than it's worth. There's a reason why most animals don't have shells like turtles do.

 

[Technobuilder]

I guess I just took it at face value from what I saw on screen way back when, and I'll admit it's gotten a bit hazy since the one time I ever saw that episode...

But taking all of the above into account, the armor concept leaves much to be desired. If this was your thinking while writing those instances, then that works for me. I know that an explanation like this doesn't always get included in the prose, so thanks for saying it here. I guess I just like justifications for things.

Again, great book. Looking forward to your next endeavor, whatever it may be.

 

[Christopher]

Well, the explanation for why the armor is useless against the Borg comes from "Endgame" itself -- we saw the Borg adapt to the armor and modify their weapons to let them penetrate it. At that point, it ceased to be useful as a defense against the Borg. And since GTTS was a mission against the Borg, the armor wasn't useful there. That's the only explanation I needed as far as GTTS itself went. My comments above are speculation on whether it would be useful in more general terms, which I don't think it really would be, except in very limited situations where you don't need to be armored for very long and can afford the great inefficiency and performance limitations.

 

[Stephen!]

I'm surprised the TR-116 hasn't been used in the recent books. That seems to be quite effective against the Borg.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/TR-116_rifle

In the non-canon Deep Space Nine Mission Gamma novel Lesser Evil, Lieutenant Sam Bowers tells of his experiences aboard the USS Budapest during the Battle of Sector 001. The Budapest was one of a handful of Starfleet vessels equipped with prototype TR-116s. When the Borg attempted to assimilate the ship and its crew, Bowers led a security team equipped with TR-116 rifles through the ship, with orders to eliminate any and all Borg drones. Because the weapons used projectiles instead of energy beams, the Borg's shielding was useless, and the Budapest crew were successful in stopping the Borg.

 

[Marco Palmieri]

I'm surprised the TR-116 hasn't been used in the recent books. That seems to be quite effective against the Borg.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/TR-116_rifle

In the non-canon Deep Space Nine Mission Gamma novel Lesser Evil, Lieutenant Sam Bowers tells of his experiences aboard the USS Budapest during the Battle of Sector 001. The Budapest was one of a handful of Starfleet vessels equipped with prototype TR-116s. When the Borg attempted to assimilate the ship and its crew, Bowers led a security team equipped with TR-116 rifles through the ship, with orders to eliminate any and all Borg drones. Because the weapons used projectiles instead of energy beams, the Borg's shielding was useless, and the Budapest crew were successful in stopping the Borg.

Yes, that's true.

[walks away, whistles innocently]

 

[HappyDayRiot]

I mentioned the TR-116s not too long ago, and someone, very possibly Christopher, pointed out that as effective as they were, the Borg would still adapt to them eventually, just not in a typical way.

 

[Sci]

It wouldn't take much to adapt to a TR-116. A transport inhibitor field and some Kevlar body armor. Might make the drones look a little funny, but the gun would be rendered fairly useless.

 

[Strider]

The projecile-vulnerable Borg thing is really weird, and the part in Lesser Evil about the TR-116 didn't help matters. You just have to assume that the Borg can adapt to projectiles with ease, or else Starfleet would have no difficulty wiping out Borg drones by the thousands. The fact this hasn't happened suggest it isn't possible.

 

[David Mack]

^ [ whistling ]

 

[Turbo]

I can see that the TR-116 could help Starfleet forces fight off a Borg boarding party, but it wouldn't help too much in Starfleet boarding a Borg ship or in a major ground assault - the drones would overwhelm the opposing force by sheer numbers.

 

[David Mack]

^ Let's talk again in two months....

 

[Turbo]

Must.....get....Destiny!

 

[LutherSloan]

We also forget Picard killing drones with a holographic tommy gun, which would use standard projectiles.

 

[Turbo]

We also forget Picard killing drones with a holographic tommy gun, which would use standard projectiles.

To be fair, most weapons got two or three shots off against the Borg before they adapted, so the tommy gun trick might not have worked again. That said, I think he should've had the computer begin replicating them en masse.

 

[captcalhoun]

grenade launchers. TR-116s that fire full auto with underslung nade launchers...

 

[Strider]

^ [ whistling ]

Hmmmm, well I just started reading Gods of Night and I gotta say I've been pretty impressed with the technical side of things. I always thought that angle was really lacking in the tv Star Trek, but the current Trek authors seem to be doing a really admirable job presenting realistic-seeming starships, weapons, military procedures, etc. It's actually a real strength of modern Trek Lit, because (aside from the fact that the nerd side of me is interested in those things) it helps to establish the characters as professionals who know their shit. That said, if the TR-116 is introduced in Destiny, I'm actually confident that the logical problems could be reconciled in a way that wouldn't leave the reader scratching their heads.

 

[Technobuilder]

You know, I've just connected the fact that a central character in the Destiny Trilogy, namely Ezri Dax, just also happens to be the one character who's had the most (and as far as I know) only on screen contact with a TR-116...

Yeah.

Interesting.

 

[BryanSorensen]

i was gonna mention the Picard with the tommy gun thing too. Someone was watching ST FC with me and saw that part. They were wondering why he didnt get a whole bunch of them together and light them all up. I tried to explain that it was possible that their focefields would eventually adapt to them like explained above, they looked at me and said 'These borg guys are giant pains in the asses arent they?"