Getting Rid Of Kim?

[Bry_Sinclair]

Had the PTB gone with their original plan and axed the dull-as-dishwater Kim from the main cast, replacing him with Seven, do you think that they may have opted for a non-white actress? Surely replacing Garrett Wang for the likes of Jeri Ryan would've caused a stir regarding racial diversity in the cast.

 

[Jayson1]

Had the PTB gone with their original plan and axed the dull-as-dishwater Kim from the main cast, replacing him with Seven, do you think that they may have opted for a non-white actress? Surely replacing Garrett Wang for the likes of Jeri Ryan would've caused a stir regarding racial diversity in the cast.

I don't think so. Racial diversity was a issue but not like it is today. First you would have to convince some studio head who lets face it was proably some rich conservative that white teenage males will find a women of color as being sexy, or at least so sexy that they will tune it just to see her.
Also the fact that the show had a female captain and other actors who were not white would proably make them feel that they were basically covered on any issue of racism or being bigoted.

Jason

 

[Sophie74656]

Agreed with Jason, at the time it wasn't as much of an issue. I don't think the issue would have been about race at all. Personally I'm glad they kept him and that Kes left

 

[ThatChapThere]

Kim never reached the astronomical level of boringness and horrible acting that Kes did anyway.

 

[Sophie74656]

Kim never reached the astronomical level of boringness and horrible acting that Kes did anyway.

Lol agreed

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Kim never reached the astronomical level of boringness and horrible acting that Kes did anyway.

Sorry but you're unfair. Jennifer Lien (Kes) had the potential in term of acting to do some great things in Voyager but alas, her character remained throughout 3 seasons, the "faire-valoir" of Neelix, instead of being developped on her side.

Look at Harry Kim. He was the faire-valoir of Tom Paris but his character was enough developped to exist by his own. Anyway. I wouldn't miss Mr Kim if he had been shipped out at the end of s3.

 

[Paradise City]

Without Kim you'd upset the delicately balanced Voyager eco-system. You'd have to revive the Paris-Neelix pairing.

And you don't wanna do that.

Kim did his bits n' pieces. I would've hardened the character up a bit as the series progressed mind you. He's bit too much of a mommas boy for too long. The character's potential that I'm thinking of can be glimpsed in Timeless.

 

[Sophie74656]

Sorry but you're unfair. Jennifer Lien (Kes) had the potential in term of acting to do some great things in Voyager but alas, her character remained throughout 3 seasons, the "faire-valoir" of Neelix, instead of being developped on her side.

Look at Harry Kim. He was the faire-valoir of Tom Paris but his character was enough developped to exist by his own. Anyway. I wouldn't miss Mr Kim if he had been shipped out at the end of s3.

I liked him but I don't think I would have missed him much either.

I don't think that Lien had potential in terms of acting to be any better. In my opinion when the focus was on her she always performed poorly. Perhaps if she was a better actor she would have had more development. Look at the characters that did get a lot of development and attention. Janeway. Seven, B'Elanna, the Doctor, those actors were very talented and did a lot of work behind the scenes for their characters. Those that were less developed were weaker actors and didn't put the work in

 

[Voth commando1]

Voyager had what one white male regular? If you ask me they had enough diversity-but I'm a proud reactionary.

 

[Lynx]

Sorry but you're unfair. Jennifer Lien (Kes) had the potential in term of acting to do some great things in Voyager but alas, her character remained throughout 3 seasons, the "faire-valoir" of Neelix, instead of being developped on her side.

Look at Harry Kim. He was the faire-valoir of Tom Paris but his character was enough developped to exist by his own. Anyway. I wouldn't miss Mr Kim if he had been shipped out at the end of s3.

"Unfair" is an understatement when it comes to those previous comments.

Kes was a much, much better character than Kim and Jennifer Lien was a much better actress than Garret Wang.

Still, Harry was OK and I see no reason to dump him or any other of the original main characters. They were all great. But if I had to choose between keeping Kes or Kim inn the series, I would have kept Kes.

 

[Lynx]

I liked him but I don't think I would have missed him much either.

I don't think that Lien had potential in terms of acting to be any better. In my opinion when the focus was on her she always performed poorly. Perhaps if she was a better actor she would have had more development. Look at the characters that did get a lot of development and attention. Janeway. Seven, B'Elanna, the Doctor, those actors were very talented and did a lot of work behind the scenes for their characters. Those that were less developed were weaker actors and didn't put the work in

"Work behind the scenes"?

So the skill of an actor or actress depends of how much bowing and boot-licking for those in charge when the camera isn't on?

I don't think so.

Besides that, Jennifer Lien wasn't fired for bad acting, she was fired because those in charge decided to keep Wang due to a silly inside poll among the employees of a glossy magazine. Not to mention that the shy Jennifer Lien would keep her mouth shut if being fired, something that Wang or the other actors wouldn't have done.

And Jennifer never performed poorly. She was as good as or even better than most of her colleagues.

 

[Voth commando1]

I heard that you had to interact with the directors/producers show some interest or enthusiasm in your role if say you wanted more focus or maybe a director seat one day.

I heard Lien was nasty to the fans and was somewhat immature(God knows that was true).

Wang really should be thankful he was saved because people magazine thought he was attractive and all he has to do is keep his mouth shut and attend convention every year or so. But no he and Beltran complained, criticized the show and the producers/writers and then wondered publicly why their characters got the shaft.

 

[Voth commando1]

Jeri's performance transcended her reason for being there though.

 

[Refuge]

I think she played the part of a Borg well. Head.. tilt to the side, speak in monotone, and use command language.

Not much of a stretch is it? Though we did get to see her act beyond that when the Doctor took over her body. Eating the cheesecake, affecting his mannerisms. She was amusing doing that.

 

[Voth commando1]

It's very difficult to underemote which she did. She was capable of non-verbal acting I. spades-body language, twinges and gestures.

And I must give her credit for remembering all those numbers in the Voyager Conspiracy.

 

[Refuge]

I agree she underemotes with the best of them. I prefer the Vulcan version though, more substance to a Vulcan.

 

[Sophie74656]

"Work behind the scenes"?

So the skill of an actor or actress depends of how much bowing and boot-licking for those in charge when the camera isn't on?

I don't think so.

Besides that, Jennifer Lien wasn't fired for bad acting, she was fired because those in charge decided to keep Wang due to a silly inside poll among the employees of a glossy magazine. Not to mention that the shy Jennifer Lien would keep her mouth shut if being fired, something that Wang or the other actors wouldn't have done.

And Jennifer never performed poorly. She was as good as or even better than most of her colleagues.

Just because it doesn't fit on your jennifer lien pedestal doesn't make it false. The actors themselves often talked about making meetings with producers and discussing their characters and their ideas. Lien and wang said they never did that. They were both often late to the set also. This is something Lien herself has said

 

[Voth commando1]

Yeah it probably involved some boot licking but it also involved discussing your character and ideas for your character with producers and writers, being on time for performance, playing ball and doing other things.

Come to think of it it doesn't seem like that much an issue unless the actor couldn't muster any enthusiasm for,the role to begin with.

 

[Refuge]

I don't know it sounds like innuendo and gossip to me. We can only go by what we see and Janeway, for example, was always going to be front and center. Seven was the sex pot bait to get more viewers so she could've grunted her lines out her nose if she wanted and still had an audience.

If it were a budget thing and Harry was first slated to go that doesn't sound like Kes was sidelined because of actor issues. More like ratings and money ones.

 

[Sophie74656]

I don't know it sounds like innuendo and gossip to me. We can only go by what we see and Janeway, for example, was always going to be front and center. Seven was the sex pot bait to get more viewers so she could've grunted her lines out her nose if she wanted and still had an audience.

If it were a budget thing and Harry was first slated to go that doesn't sound like Kes was sidelined because of actor issues. More like ratings and money ones.

It is what the actors themselves have said in interviews and conventions. Robert Picardo and Roxann Dawson in particular have talked a lot about seeking out producers to discuss their characters

It was a budget issue in that they needed one person to leave to make room for another. They didn't have the budget for a 10 person cast. Up to that point Voyager was the most expensive series in large part to their heavy digital work