Genesis of Genesis

[RobertScorpio]

What was the Federation thinking even considering the Genesis project? They had to know, even from the early testing, that is could have been perverted into a weapon....They had to know that if used as a weapon it would have been a very powerful one, on different than the weapon Shinzon had in Nemesis...(genesis--Nemesis)...

Genesis was a bad idea. Yeah, giving life to dead moons for food/population concerns was good...but doing it with out Klingon/Romulan knowledge was just wrong headed..

Rob

 

[Therin of Andor]

doing it with out Klingon/Romulan knowledge was just wrong headed.

Federation scientists resolving terraforming issues must consult with enemy races before proceeding?

 

[RobertScorpio]

doing it with out Klingon/Romulan knowledge was just wrong headed.

Federation scientists resolving terraforming issues must consult with enemy races before proceeding?

Obviously the Klingons had issues with it. It would be like the USA working on some device that could turn useless deserts into grass fields with tons of water. But could also be used to wipe out any living beings to set up its own matrix...I could see Russia/China being kind of worried about a something like that. It could easily be used as a first strike weapon. Would you trust this device with someone like Obama? Maybe. But what if someone like George Bush became president again...trust him? Cheney? Not me...

I think the Genesis Project had great intentions. But I could easily see it used as a weapon, just as David Marcus was worried about...you know..over grown boy scouts..



Rob

 

[Therin of Andor]

I could see Russia/China being kind of worried about a something like that.

Did NASA reveal all to the Soviets about the race to the moon from Apollo's side?

Did the US government ask first before developing F-111s? Stealth bombers?

Did US get asked permission for Chernobyl's nuclear power plant to go ahead?

Did Japan get advance plans for the Hiroshima bomb blast?

 

[Timo]

...It might be argued that it would have been a splendid idea to brief the Japanese about the Hiroshima bombing in advance.

Similarly, developing Genesis in bright public light (and thus under heavy military protection rather than risky secretive isolation) could have served propagandist purposes. "Why, it never occurred to us that our nifty and completely peaceful planet-maker here could make short work of the entire Klingon Empire if applied in anger. Thank you for bringing that to our attention. Now, didn't we have some uncertainty about the ownership of the Archanis system? Please sit down and let's negotiate. Perhaps you would like one of our newly made habitable planets in exchange? In fact, I'm sure you would be happy to make the little swap."

Timo Saloniemi

 

[blueziggy]

my take on it. some of the worst inventions in history have lead to some of the greatest advancements of our time. rocketry is just one of them. rockets were first designed to deliver payloads of explosives over long distances. at some point someone said "hey lets attach these to a place where we can put people and shoot them up into outer space". this is just one example. the reverse is also true. some of the best inventions / discoveries have lead to disgusting advances too. advances in medicine have lead to bio weapons.

do these examples mean we should stop exploring space or making advances in medicine? hell no. just hope that those of sound mind and morality are in charge of where we as a people implement these discoveries.

 

[RobertScorpio]

my take on it. some of the worst inventions in history have lead to some of the greatest advancements of our time. rocketry is just one of them. rockets were first designed to deliver payloads of explosives over long distances. at some point someone said "hey lets attach these to a place where we can put people and shoot them up into outer space". this is just one example. the reverse is also true. some of the best inventions / discoveries have lead to disgusting advances too. advances in medicine have lead to bio weapons.

do these examples mean we should stop exploring space or making advances in medicine? hell no. just hope that those of sound mind and morality are in charge of where we as a people implement these discoveries.

The Genesis device will destroy all live in order to create its new matrix. I would have had no problem with the device had the Federation been more open about what they were doing...the fact they did it in secret, with Starfleet's knowledge, is where I have problems with this program.

And why not reveal it from the start if its soul purpose was to create life from lifeless worlds? That is a good thing, isn't it? Why the secrecy at all???

Rob

 

[Candlelight]

That is a good thing, isn't it? Why the secrecy at all???

Because it's not tested. They had only done stage 1 and 2 by the time Kirk showed up, so if they had gone public with such a device it would've been a PR nightmare if it hadn't worked ("we're inventing this device that can revolutionise food and water shortages- oh wait, I've just been told it doesn't work"). Imagine if the US did they, they'd be laughed off the planet by the Russians, Chinese, etc.

And so what if it's used as a weapon? Remember the Federation/Klingon relationship had never been one of peaches and cream; should the need arise to wipe the Klingons out - not that such a need would EVER rear it's head - then the Genesis device is a perfect weapon to use.

I wonder what would happen if it were fired into a star...?

 

[Red Ranger]

People,

Given the paranoid nature of the Klingons and Romulans, it's understandable that they would make the argument, as the Klingon ambassador in TVH does, that Genesis would be used, "to launch the annihilation of the Klingon people!" There's an old Spanish saying, loosely translated, which goes, "The thief applies his own morality to all others."

Meaning that probably if the Klingons could have developed the Genesis torpedo, they would have had no qualms using it to rearrange the surface of Federation colonies, like the neutron bomb. So since some in the Empire felt that way, they assumed Starfleet and the Federation had similar plans. The secrecy of the project fed into their paranoia.

I have to agree with those of you who can't see how the Federation could have alerted their enemies about the project before they were sure it worked -- and as we saw, David Marcus's protomatter short-cut ensured it wouldn't over the long-term, although that wasn't his goal.

Red Ranger

 

[Candlelight]

It's ironic that such a device would've been an extremely handy post-TUC in dealing with a dying Kronos...

 

[Silversmok3]

Lets backtrack for a moment.

Genesis was a classified project.No one outside of Starfleet's top brass was authorized to know about it.

So clearly the Federation didn't give a quark about Klingon or Romulan opinion.

As Genesis was classified, and taking place within Federation territory,the project was engineered in total secrecy, and would have happily progressed from the lab, to the underground on Regulus, to the acutal live test somewhere in the Federation's boonies without anyone the wiser.

That is , until Khan fubared everything.

Proving the saw that one idiot can undo the work of geniouses,his crimes and the theft +detonation of Genesis sounded a galactic bullhorn on the whole affair.

After all, it is somewhat difficult to cover up the deaths of hundreds of people ( some of which are Starfleet personell), the marooning of the Reliants crew,the eventual destruction of Reliant and the parade finish of a proto-planet existing where a nebula should be .

 

[RobertScorpio]

The Federation should never have done this project in secret, even if their goal was the peaceful use of the Genesis Torpedo.

What if war had broken out between the Klingons/Federation before knowledge of the Genesis Device became public domain. And what if that war was going badly for the Federation. Do you think that for one moment the Federation, with secret groups like Section-31 in the background, wouldn't had used it? Sure they would have.

Perhaps there were galatic laws banning such projects, and that is why it was done in secret. And if the argument was they did it in secret so the Klingons wouldn't know, or the Romulans, then it calls into serious doubt what Starfleet was intending all along..

I side with the Klingons on this one...Starfleet intentions (including the mysterious destruction of ceti-alpha 6) are not always good..

Rob

 

[RobertScorpio]

That is a good thing, isn't it? Why the secrecy at all???

And so what if it's used as a weapon? Remember the Federation/Klingon relationship had never been one of peaches and cream; should the need arise to wipe the Klingons out - not that such a need would EVER rear it's head - then the Genesis device is a perfect weapon to use.

You make my point for me. I actually believe you are right. Starfleet was intending to use it as a weapon, if need be. And they used Carol Marcus. And if so? Then the Klingons are justified in not only destroying the Grissom, but also, in my mind, killing those who created it.

Spock warned Mccoy that it 'is always easier to destory than create.' His is right. In one movie they not only destroyed a world, but also destroyed the so called peaceful intent of Starfleet..

Rob

 

[Silversmok3]

That is a good thing, isn't it? Why the secrecy at all???

And so what if it's used as a weapon? Remember the Federation/Klingon relationship had never been one of peaches and cream; should the need arise to wipe the Klingons out - not that such a need would EVER rear it's head - then the Genesis device is a perfect weapon to use.

You make my point for me. I actually believe you are right. Starfleet was intending to use it as a weapon, if need be. And they used Carol Marcus. And if so? Then the Klingons are justified in not only destroying the Grissom, but also, in my mind, killing those who created it.

Spock warned Mccoy that it 'is always easier to destory than create.' His is right. In one movie they not only destroyed a world, but also destroyed the so called peaceful intent of Starfleet..

Rob

I dont think so. If starfleet wanted Genesis as a weapon civilian scientists wouldn't be anywhere near the thing.

The elaborate testing to ensure that an ecosystem was created (AKA the underground) wouldnt make sense, as it(genesis) would just be to wipe out everything, right?

The reason its classified is so that the Romulans, Klingons, or ther bad guys couldn't steal the plans and make their own Genesis torpedo. And while starfleet may use the thing in a wartime emergency ( like a Borg invasion) ,the Romulans and Klingons would broker no debate in using it in their own wars.Possibly against the Federation itself.

 

[Candlelight]

Maybe Section 31 had something to do with it's inception.

 

[Plecostomus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEEEGWBUbvk&feature=related

 

[RobertScorpio]

With organizations like SECTION 31 running around, I don't think Genesis would have been to safe with Starfleet either...how many nut job Admirals have we seen in ALL shows called Star Trek? Too many...

Rob Scorpio

 

[Candlelight]

With organizations like SECTION 31 running around, I don't think Genesis would have been to safe with Starfleet either...how many nut job Admirals have we seen in ALL shows called Star Trek? Too many...

Rob Scorpio

Well that part IS bad writing. It's become a cliche within Trek and other shows that the captain's superior is a bit of a nutter and thus has to either confront them or work around them.

I think it would be safe to say that there would be higher ranks involved in something as powerful as a genesis device...

 

[Silversmok3]

Scorpio,you're looking at the glass half empty.

Yes,Genesis can be used to wipe out life on a planet.So can a fleet of starships.

So using your logic Starfleet should shut down any starship development,because it cab be used to create ships that can destroy planets.

Technology is neutral.Who wields the remote control is the one who can use it for good or evil.

I think Genesis would have been a great tool had it still been classified.

Starfleet would have recovered from the Dominion War much faster ,and instead of trading worlds to Cardassia and spawning the Maquis,could have discovered (wink wink) new habitable worlds that were on their side of the border.

Heck,Insurrection wouldn't have happened.Progran a Genesis torpedo with some age-reversing properties and call the So'na after tea.

Its useful to point out that technology capable of destruction can be used to avoid it as well.

 

[RobertScorpio]

The very fact that a random element, Khan, got his hands on it to begin with is proof that the project should never have been done in secret. It almost started a war. And the argument that it was "better in the hands of Starfleet than anyone elses" doesn't add up since A; it ended up in Khan's hands, and B; Starfleet always seems to have rogue elements associated with it...

David Marcus and Carol Marcus concerns in the movie are very real. If they had doubts about the military getting their hands on it, then that is proof to me that even they, citizens in the future, are worried about the motives of Starfleet..

Rob
Scorpio