Free Illyrians!!! Free the Augments!!!...

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds' started by Ferengi Prime 5, Jul 10, 2022.

  1. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Earth is the Federation's homeworld, and if it's still on the books there, it would carry over. Up until SNW, it was more a case that Human augmentation was banned within the Federation, because the Federation did have facilities like the Darwin Station (seen in TNG's "Unnatural Selection") that actually specialized in genetics research. So the Federation was still pursuing a form of genetic engineering, but mainly to fight various diseases rather than create a new race of superhumans.

    Unfortunately, Darwin Station also makes a case why messing around with genetics can lead to accidents, but nevertheless, the Federation still had the facility in spite of the ban.
    I think that goes back to the idea that the Eugenics Wars was something Humanity never wants to even come close to again.
    The downside of being in an "enlightened society."
     
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  2. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Garth of Algar Premium Member

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    Providing context isn't always Star Trek's strong suit. Or thinking about ramifications.
     
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  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed. And it isn't just Khan, but also Arik Soong, the Augment Virus, Colonel Green, and probably more examples in history. There is a reluctance to repeat past mistakes, and prefer the "ounce of caution " approach.
     
  4. Serveaux

    Serveaux Mediocre Old White Man Premium Member

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    Starfleet is going to try to send Una to a prison colony because of a decision she made about her body.*

    How do you think that's going to play in 2023?


    *Split hairs about what you think the relevant charges actually will be stated to be; I don't care.
     
  5. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Lying under oath, falsifying records, and being a dirty-dirty ILLYRIAN.

    THROW THE PADD AT HER
     
  6. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Garth of Algar Premium Member

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    I see she taught Spock well.
     
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  7. Ferengi Prime 5

    Ferengi Prime 5 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    They do send Una to a penal colony for at least 7 years for being augment as a child. It sounds like only one of her parents was human and one was Illyrian( also a crime).

    Here an article about prejudice in New Worlds...

    https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2022...ds-exploring-how-prejudice-hinders-starfleet/

    No matter how much Star Trek has gotten it right in centuries past, there isn’t really a utopia for the future. Number One’s secret proves that. Illyrians have done no wrong, but they are prevented from moving forward with the United Federation of Planets simply because of who and what they are.
     
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  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Garth of Algar Premium Member

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    As far was we know, both parents are Illyrian.
     
  9. Ferengi Prime 5

    Ferengi Prime 5 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Think about, DS9 where parents find backroom augmentation for their children. In this case you may get a Julian Bashir or augments come out with short comings because being done in backrooms. If augmentation of humans was regulated by the Federation, those parents would not have to turn to back alleys for help.

    "Two hundred years ago we tried to improve the species through DNA resequencing, and what did we get for our trouble? The Eugenics Wars. For every Julian Bashir that can be created, there’s a Khan Singh waiting in the wings. A superhuman whose ambition and thirst for power have been enhanced along with his intellect. The law against genetic engineering provides a firewall against such men and it’s my job to keep that firewall intact."
    Rear Admiral Bennett, 2373 ("Doctor Bashir, I Presume")

    The Federation prejudice towards augments because they fear mega maniacs. It is irrational because there have been many more mega maniacs that have no genetic augmentations...

    Earth fears its history and has centuries of PSTD from it. Does not justify prejudice towards other species that embrace genetic augmentation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2022
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  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, which needs to be approached as the trauma it is rather than going, "this equals bad. Change now!"

    And there are small genetic changes allowed, given what happened on Voyager.
     
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  11. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Also, the crime isn't being an Illyrian. It's a crime of lying repeatedly and falsefying data to get around being an Illyrian.

    Which, of course, is a distinction without a difference.

    Sort of like how the Pentagon made it against the law to be a homosexual in the Department of Defense because they might be blackmailed about it but the only reason you could be blackmailed about it was because it was against the law and you'd lose your job.
     
  12. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Federation has a lot of justification for banning augmentation. Firstly, there is the fact that human augments have largely had a tendency towards sociopathy and world domination and were responsible for one of the most destructive conflicts in human history. Secondly, it's shown that augmentation on the general populace goes wrong far more often than it goes right. Bashir was one of the few, possibly the only augmented individual, who got lucky and didn't suffer from some degree of behavioural or mental deficiency.

    Humanity has worked hard to rebuild itself from the ravages of the eugenics wars and WW3 and there is just too much at stake to risk another Khan coming along.
     
  13. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I don't really buy into the idea that a dangerous behavioral trait is inherent with Human augmentation. Yes, there is the adage that "superior ability breeds superior ambition," but you don't have to be an Augment for that to be true. It could even be that most people who have undergone augmentation have not wanted to rule the world or cause major chaos, but as often is the case, all it takes is a few to ruin everything for many.
     
  14. Stuart Wilson

    Stuart Wilson Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    The ban on augmentation makes perfect sense. If you have a society where some people have been created to be stronger, smarter, faster than the norm then Where does that leave everyone else? You are creating an ubermensch to who the rest of humanity would become subservient if not superfluous. The Eugenics wars proved this (and there's no reason to assume other races didn't have similar er, "growing pains" before joining the Federation).
    Una may have had the best of intentions but she falsified records and lied on her Starfleet application. Now 7 years on a penal colony does sound harsh (six months in a minimum security prison and being kicked out of the service would probably do) but the principle is sound.
     
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  15. Serveaux

    Serveaux Mediocre Old White Man Premium Member

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    You're wrong. It's rank bigotry.

    People here get upset when SNW treats lizard people who kill indiscrimately as murderous enemies because "They missed the point of an old episode of another show," but think it makes sense to single out and punish people for choosing medical practices that people from Earth are afraid of.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2022
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  16. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Either way, this bigotry against augments isn’t going to be solved in SNW, as it still exists 100+ years later in DS9.

    There’s probably just going to be an exemption made for Una. Perhaps she gets kicked out if Starfleet, but is allowed to serve as a civilian on the Enterprise.
     
  17. Serveaux

    Serveaux Mediocre Old White Man Premium Member

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    That's another bit of outdated continuity they can fix. Trek will be better going forward for that.
     
  18. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    But they won't.
     
  19. Stuart Wilson

    Stuart Wilson Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Well the Federation has decided to ban augmentation for perfectly clear reasons as I've outlined. They feel that it is a potential threat to their society and have come to this conclusion. They are not attacking other races that choose to practice it. It's just a condition of joining their organisation. We do the same in our societies. For example, performance enhancing drugs are banned in athletics. That would include athletes, perhaps even minors, who were fed such drugs without their knowledge by unscrupulous coaches. One may sympathise with their predicament but the ban would still apply.
    It's also clear that the Federation allow limited genetic augmentation to treat serious medical conditions. No doubt there are ethics committees deciding on what conditions can be treated, but we don't see them as it wouldn't make an entertaining episode. What they do not allow is any attempt to "improve" the species.

    Una's crime was to falsify records and lie to get into Starfleet. This would certainly be enough to get anyone sacked at least.

    To give you a real world parallel. Here in the UK it is illegal to own a handgun. This is not the case in other countries, many of which we maintain good relations with. But it is here. This was something we decide on as a society (well parliament did but we elected them) after a man went into a primary school and shot a load of kids and teachers. The vast majority of people who owned such weapons never shot anyone and may have felt aggrieved that they could no longer practice their hobby and their freedoms were being curtailed, but for the good of society the ban was imposed. The needs of the many and all that. Not every gun owner is a murderer and not every augment is a Khan but the Federation is entitled to make laws to ban argumentation particularly since it is not affecting an existing group within the Fed as the ban would seem to have existed for some time, and given that it had previously led to a major conflict.

    Now you may disagree with their decision. and I would expect many people do in the Federation (I know it's not real but you know, lets pretend it is for now). And perhaps there are pressure groups pushing for change. But to get such change one would need to shift public and political opinion and this clearly hasn't happened.
     
  20. Serveaux

    Serveaux Mediocre Old White Man Premium Member

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    "Perfectly clear reasons" that justify bigoted treatment of people who have had their genome modified.

    Seriously, what the fuck?

    There's not even the excuse that this idea goes back to the rather Manichean and outdated mindset of TOS - the various "Federation bans" aren't introduced canonically until the TNG/DS9 era, when they should have given it more thought - bearing in mind that the episode which most elaborates on this (until Star Trek: Enterprise, anyway) also placed the Eugenics Wars in the 22nd century). How or why the entire multi-species Federation decided to go along with human idiocy is never addressed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2022
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