News Foundation Adaptation Series Officially Ordered by Apple

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JD, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What exactly is the difference between Galaxia and the Borg?
     
  2. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I can't see how novels can work without central and supporting characters and Foundation is not different in that regard. However i don't believe it is exclusive or even detrimental to Psychohistory as these characters merely just find and implement the solution to a crisis the way PH predicted. In that regard PH still doesn't need individuals, it just predicts that out of the big pool of human candidates someone will come up with the right decision to move forward.

    I think the distinction is that Galaxia will become a natural state for human life, i.e. humans will naturally be born into a collective consciousness much like hive insects are born into the hive, just at a higher evolutionary level.

    Borg actively move around and assimilate people against their free will.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So on one hand you have a million nuclear bombs, and on the other hand some rat bastard magic planet is zombifying all the new born babies on your planet.

    This is what I found ridiculous about anti-mutant terrorists in X-Men comics chanting about human purity. Dumb bastards. Their granchildren are going to be Mutants. The only way to stop your children or grand children from almost definitely being born as mutants is auto-castration.

    Now that's conviction.

    I suppose anti-mutant incell terrorists still have a point.
     
  4. Brobdingnag

    Brobdingnag Captain Red Shirt

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    With Galaxia, the people keep their individuality but are simultaneously part of a greater whole. We can see that on Gaia Golan Trevize and Pelorat meet a man there who behaves normally he is an artist of sorts and at the same time, his mind is part of a super-brain that makes the big decisions for the whole. It has similarities with the borg but essentially as I see it. It's the borg written by a smart person. The borg as a concept is pretty shallow and keeps contradicting itself. Like the borg queen that has been added for drama but is a complete aberration.
     
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  5. EmoBorg

    EmoBorg Commodore Commodore

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    The difference is that Galaxia hasn't met Janeway yet.
     
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  6. Brobdingnag

    Brobdingnag Captain Red Shirt

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    With the mental powers of an entire galaxy, they could probably do extraordinary things, like build entire habitable solar systems with the power of their minds! How cool would that be? A fleet of warring starships would be crushed like a mosquito against a windshield.
     
  7. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Cleon took the killing the entire family trope to a whole new level. :)
    Looks like season 2 will be set 138 years into the future. It’s a shame we won’t be seeing that Brother Day again.
    Looks like everyone was right about who Salvor is. It is weird her being the daughter to Gaal since Gaal still looks like a kid.
     
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  8. Verteron

    Verteron Lux in tenebris lucet Premium Member

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    I guess Demerzel isn't a three laws kind of a girl

    In the novels:

    He was an alternate identity of Daneel Olivaw who certainly was.
     
  9. Verteron

    Verteron Lux in tenebris lucet Premium Member

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    Yeah, I guess we'll find out whether there's a new Brother Day in this new era, or if the Genetic Dynasty was corrupted beyond repair and thus falls. Perhaps in the years that Gaal and Salvor have been asleep, Trantor may have already fallen. Lots to find out next year.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2021
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  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There are four laws.

    The zeroeth law which supercedes the first three is A Robot shall not do harm to humanity or through inaction allow harm to befall humanity.
     
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  11. Verteron

    Verteron Lux in tenebris lucet Premium Member

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    I'm aware, but I also don't recall any instance where Daneel Olivaw was capable of directly killing a human. Though it has been a while, my memory for the details of the stories is not completely fresh.

    I suppose though, we may be looking at an interpretation of the Zeroth law here, if Demerzel concluded that the fall of the Dynasty would precipitate the fall of man. Although for all we know, she may be the one who corrupted the Cleons. I'm beginning to think so, certainly.

    If she wants the Genetic Dynasty to fall conclusively, Day allowing Dawn to ascend to the middle throne despite his abnormalities may have been a bit of a spanner in her plans, so forcing her to kill him and thus leading to her anger at being forced to violate the first law for the zeroth.

    I'm also surprised that with all their technology in whatever century it is, the Empire's medics aren't able to fix a broken neck if they were brought in quickly, nanobots or no nanobots.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Giskard caused an environmental catastrophe, killing Earth and probably millions of people too slow to get the $$ck off before it got toasty.

    Dusk has to become the new genetic sample.

    Which means Dawn, Day and all the back ups have to be killed, and Dusk goes into the display case.

    Which puts a baby on the thrown, who is alone.
     
  13. billedeclone

    billedeclone Ensign Newbie

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    There are five laws, actually. The minus oneth law which supersedes all others and says: A Robot shall break your neck like a twig and then tear its face off.:D
     
  14. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Wow.. that punishment is really final and absolutely inhumanely brutal.

    So best guess who manipulated the Cleon clones? My guess is Demerzel him(her?it?)self according to her plan for humanity itself it it's ever revealed that she's acting due to the zeroeth law ( i doubt it because it seems the show doesn't have the rights to Asimov's Robot stories, so they can't reference the laws openly). Her ripping off the face was horror at its finest and caught me by surprise.

    In the end it happened as i expected - Hari appeared and told them they need to form a coalition, which they do. So far so good but since the show has basically said goodbye to the books everything else is up for grabs.

    I am really not sure what to make of Gaal's and Salvor's story because it runs counter to everything Psychohistory claims to be. These are individual actions which Psychohistory claims to not be able to predict yet the show keeps concentrating on them. I'm curious what the endgame is for these two, how they can explain to meet on a deserted water planet somewhere in the galaxy ( i have more chances winning the lottery than this one) and what they will do there ( possibly form the nucleus of the second Foundation)?
    The psychic connection could also mean they are the ancestors of The Mule or that they are this show's version of The Mule already, who knows.

    Either way i know i will tune in when the second season comes.
     
  15. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I always thought the zeroth law was poorly worded. I mean how does one define, or even quantify "harm" when applied to "humanity"? Hell, how would a robot even define or quantify "humanity"? As a species? As a set of moral, ethical, and empathetical traits? How does that not lead to stagnation, because if they're allowed to evolved beyond those parameters, would that not count as extinction by way of mutation?
     
  16. billedeclone

    billedeclone Ensign Newbie

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    However, to a robot, that gesture has no more significance than removing a piece of clothing and cutting it to pieces.
     
  17. billedeclone

    billedeclone Ensign Newbie

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    That fact was developed in Robots And Empire and it was the reason why Giskard went to a mental freeze-out. He couldn't be sure that his actions did more good than bad to humanity as a whole.
     
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  18. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    And this is the reason why i like stories so much, and especially Science Fiction stories because they allow us to discuss these fantastic and interesting ideas :)

    Personally i believe it's about pain, physical but more so psychological/emotional, that compels Demerzel to act on the zeroeth law, because she (i'm sticking to she due to the show) realized that humanity itself was flawed and would endlessly harm itself up to possible extinction and the zeroeth law drives her to act. The empire might have been necessary to expand humanity in sheer numbers, so no single catastrophic event like a global killer asteroid impact on Earth, a Supernova, Black Hole or any other stellar object is not able to wipe out humanity. Now that that was accomplished she realized or already knew that the Empire would collapse under its own weight, so the next stage of the plan would have to trigger and so on.

    I'm not sure if it will play out at all in the show because it is a reveal for very late in the show ( i heard plans that calls for 8 seasons), that she is the ultimate mastermind behind all of humanity - if it indeed happens and the show survives that long it could be one hell of a reveal and complete game changer.
     
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  19. Verteron

    Verteron Lux in tenebris lucet Premium Member

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    Book spoilers:

    This would match the conclusion to the Foundation book series - her analogue in the novels was indeed revealed as the unseen hand quietly guiding humanity from the shadows for tens of thousands of years
     
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  20. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A theme from Foundation and Empire has been folded into Salvor and Gaal's story:
    The theme of mutant psionic powers, called "mentalic" in the books, that could derail psychohistory's predictions. I'm positive at this point that Gaal possesses such powers, although where they're going with it or whether we're going to see an introduction of someone like The Mule I have no idea.
    It's not just some random planet.
    It's Synnax, Gaal's home planet. She breaks down crying when she sees the ruins jutting above the surface because that was her family's home, as seen in earlier episodes. Salvor had visions of her on a waterworld, and her homeworld is on record in the Foundation. It makes sense that Salvor's search would take her there at some point.