First Contact question, with spoilers through Destiny

[USS Triumphant]

We now know that the Borg Queen came into existence because of things that took place involving the Columbia NX-02. Which begs the question: Were the Borg Queen's actions in Star Trek: First Contact an elaborate attempt at suicide? If she had succeeded, the Columbia would never have existed.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

We now know that the Borg Queen came into existence because of things that took place involving the Columbia NX-02. Which begs the question: Were the Borg Queen's actions in Star Trek: First Contact an elaborate attempt at suicide? If she had succeeded, the Columbia would never have existed.

It occurs to me...

Spoiler: DTI: Watching the Clock

It was established in Watching the Clock that the First Contact incident was the result of the Sphere Builders making a second attempt at their "destroy the Federation by taking out Earth in the past" scheme. (It's nice to see that villains are allowed to try the same plan more than once, rather than being Saturday morning cartoon adversaries, so to speak ). This time, the Sphere Builders seem to have picked a race that can't be made to eventually question their motives and turn against them. It occurs to me that the Sphere Builders, if they know about Columbia, might be very clever here - are they trying to remove not just one threat to their colonization attempt but two? Create a timeline free of the Federation and the Borg? Killing two birds with one stone? Their patsy is going to ensure its own absence from the new timeline, as well as the UFP's? Leaving the two largest threats to Sphere Builder control of our realm non-existent?

 

[Christopher]

We now know that the Borg Queen came into existence because of things that took place involving the Columbia NX-02. Which begs the question: Were the Borg Queen's actions in Star Trek: First Contact an elaborate attempt at suicide? If she had succeeded, the Columbia would never have existed.

Except the Columbia crew's involvement was somewhat peripheral, as I recall. The events that sent the Caeliar back in time were precipitated by their own far-future selves sending the pulse back; the humans just happened to be along for the ride. If the Columbia survivors hadn't been there, then the natives of the planet they crashed on might've been the first ones to be assimilated by the Borg instead, and the only real long-term difference would be that they wouldn't be called "Borg."

 

[Sci]

We now know that the Borg Queen came into existence because of things that took place involving the Columbia NX-02. Which begs the question: Were the Borg Queen's actions in Star Trek: First Contact an elaborate attempt at suicide? If she had succeeded, the Columbia would never have existed.

Except the Columbia crew's involvement was somewhat peripheral, as I recall. The events that sent the Caeliar back in time were precipitated by their own far-future selves sending the pulse back; the humans just happened to be along for the ride. If the Columbia survivors hadn't been there, then the natives of the planet they crashed on might've been the first ones to be assimilated by the Borg instead, and the only real long-term difference would be that they wouldn't be called "Borg."

Well, it's questionable whether or not Sedin would have survived without humanoids whose bodies her catoms could absorb and thereby transfer energy from to keep her consciousness extant. The Sedin consciousness--what was left of it--relied upon those first "assimilated" Humans to survive until the natives found them. Without them, her consciousness might have completely dissolved.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Interesting point, Deranged Nasat.

Christopher - The difference to the rest of the galaxy might be minimal, but it would change the Borg Queen's personal timeline, and the version of herself that she knows and loves would no longer exist. So I'm sure it would matter TO HER.

 

[Enterprise1701]

I doubt that the 2373 queen was trying to commit suicide because the 24th century Collective seems to have lost all of its memories beyond a few centuries. In "Dragon's Teeth", Seven says that the Collective's memory of just 1484 is fragmentary.

 

[Christopher]

Christopher - The difference to the rest of the galaxy might be minimal, but it would change the Borg Queen's personal timeline, and the version of herself that she knows and loves would no longer exist. So I'm sure it would matter TO HER.

I disagree. The "Borg Queen" is simply the residual, deteriorated personality/programming of Sedin. The specific host body it's running in is, to coin a phrase, irrelevant -- as evidenced by the fact that we've seen several Queen bodies destroyed while the persona lives on. Besides, the Queen had forgotten her true origins. See p. 394 of Lost Souls: "It had no memories of its own." The Queen had no idea that humanity had been peripherally involved in the Collective's origins.

 

[dansigal]

We now know that the Borg Queen came into existence because of things that took place involving the Columbia NX-02. Which begs the question: Were the Borg Queen's actions in Star Trek: First Contact an elaborate attempt at suicide? If she had succeeded, the Columbia would never have existed.

Except the Columbia crew's involvement was somewhat peripheral, as I recall. The events that sent the Caeliar back in time were precipitated by their own far-future selves sending the pulse back; the humans just happened to be along for the ride. If the Columbia survivors hadn't been there, then the natives of the planet they crashed on might've been the first ones to be assimilated by the Borg instead, and the only real long-term difference would be that they wouldn't be called "Borg."

My recollection is that the Caeliar city ship being flung back in time (and thus the Borg being created) was a direct result of the Columbia crew's sabotage efforts?

 

[RunawayStarShip]

We now know that the Borg Queen came into existence because of things that took place involving the Columbia NX-02. Which begs the question: Were the Borg Queen's actions in Star Trek: First Contact an elaborate attempt at suicide? If she had succeeded, the Columbia would never have existed.

Except the Columbia crew's involvement was somewhat peripheral, as I recall. The events that sent the Caeliar back in time were precipitated by their own far-future selves sending the pulse back; the humans just happened to be along for the ride. If the Columbia survivors hadn't been there, then the natives of the planet they crashed on might've been the first ones to be assimilated by the Borg instead, and the only real long-term difference would be that they wouldn't be called "Borg."

My recollection is that the Caeliar city ship being flung back in time (and thus the Borg being created) was a direct result of the Columbia crew's sabotage efforts?

If I recall correctly, the Caeliar initially suspected so too but eventually discovered that it was the feedback pulse that destroyed Erigol.

 

[Idran]

Except the Columbia crew's involvement was somewhat peripheral, as I recall. The events that sent the Caeliar back in time were precipitated by their own far-future selves sending the pulse back; the humans just happened to be along for the ride. If the Columbia survivors hadn't been there, then the natives of the planet they crashed on might've been the first ones to be assimilated by the Borg instead, and the only real long-term difference would be that they wouldn't be called "Borg."

My recollection is that the Caeliar city ship being flung back in time (and thus the Borg being created) was a direct result of the Columbia crew's sabotage efforts?

If I recall correctly, the Caeliar initially suspected so too but eventually discovered that it was the feedback pulse that destroyed Erigol.

Right, but if the Columbia had never interfered, then that predestination paradox might never have emerged in the first place.

This actually confuses me a little now about WTC, Christopher, because I always assumed that the reason why the 22nd century front closed was because once Columbia actually went back to the Caeliar, the Borg were an inevitability and so the Federation had to be allowed to persist in order for the Borg to eventually be defeated in the 2380s. That it was safe pre-Columbia's launch since removing Columbia removes the Borg, and it was safe after Destiny since the Borg were no longer a threat, but no fronts opened in between because of the fact that if the Federation didn't stop them, they almost inevitably overwhelmed the Milky Way. Was this not what you intended? Because if it wasn't, I would think that any interference before the formation of the Federation would still be risky; if the Borg could form without Columbia's interference, then wouldn't any acts before their defeat risk the same fate that interfering after the Federation formed might?

(And I hope you won't be offended if I persist in this subtextual interpretation pending later textual contradiction. :P)

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

If I recall correctly, the Caeliar initially suspected so too but eventually discovered that it was the feedback pulse that destroyed Erigol.

Correct. The feedback pulse that destroyed Erigol in 2168 was actually sent by the Caeliar civilization that arose from one of the cities--Kintana--that traveled back in time as a result of the disaster; the inhabitants of Kintana traveled approximately 14 billion years into the past and used the feedback pulse to create themselves.

The two other cities--Axiom and Mantilis--ended up in the Beta and Delta Quadrant, respectively.

--Sran

 

[Christopher]

Right, but if the Columbia had never interfered, then that predestination paradox might never have emerged in the first place.

No, it still would have. The pulse from the future would still have happened and caused the destruction of Erigol. The only material difference that Columbia's interference made was that some humans ended up going along for the ride to the Delta Quadrant.

This actually confuses me a little now about WTC, Christopher, because I always assumed that the reason why the 22nd century front closed was because once Columbia actually went back to the Caeliar, the Borg were an inevitability and so the Federation had to be allowed to persist in order for the Borg to eventually be defeated in the 2380s. That it was safe pre-Columbia's launch since removing Columbia removes the Borg, and it was safe after Destiny since the Borg were no longer a threat, but no fronts opened in between because of the fact that if the Federation didn't stop them, they almost inevitably overwhelmed the Milky Way. Was this not what you intended? Because if it wasn't, I would think that any interference before the formation of the Federation would still be risky; if the Borg could form without Columbia's interference, then wouldn't any acts before their defeat risk the same fate that interfering after the Federation formed might?

My intent had nothing to do with Columbia, because, once again, Columbia's crew did not cause the paradox. The concern was simply about interfering in Federation history. If you look at the events of Enterprise, Future Guy was mostly trying his best to avoid interfering with Archer, except when there was no other choice. And when he did interfere with NX-01's mission in "Shockwave," as I explained in WTC, he did it in a way that didn't kill Archer and his crew, just discredited them, so that they would've been out of the way of his immediate objectives but would still be alive to play a role in the Romulan War and later events. Risky, yes, but then, he was the bad guy.