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"Fire All Phasers"

RapidNadion

Commander
Red Shirt
Kind of an odd curiosity, I realize, but I wonder what this order actually means to the officer doing the shooting. Is "fire all phasers" merely an abbreviated form of "fire all target-facing phasers?" They didn't do this much in the spinoffs, but I believe TOS was big on this command (I recall Saavik giving the order during the Kobayashi Maru test in TWOK, at least).

What do you folks think?
 
I would think that Starfleet Academy would teach an officer how to think for themselves :)

This reminds me of an episode of TNG where Picard orders something like forward-starboard and aft-portside thrusters fired. What we see on screen is the ship moving away to one side, but in reality, Picard's order would've just meant that the Ent-D would've spun like a 640 meter top. So I would take that as the helmsman knowing what Picard meant and then executing the order :)
 
Kind of an odd curiosity, I realize, but I wonder what this order actually means to the officer doing the shooting.

There were several officers (or, more likely, crewmen) doing the shooting. It's not just the helmsman pushing a button, you know. There are multiple phaser crews.
God, I wish Bermana had had a fucking clue about ships. Or had at least watched Star Trek. Modern Trek destroyed any sense of verisimilitude Trek once had.
 
IIRC, the ONLY time this exact command was given in Star Trek was in The Wrath of Khan. And this by Saavik in the simulator.

Kirk's most routine fire commands regarding the phasers was either "Fire phasers" or simply "Fire".
 
Kind of an odd curiosity, I realize, but I wonder what this order actually means to the officer doing the shooting.

There were several officers (or, more likely, crewmen) doing the shooting. It's not just the helmsman pushing a button, you know. There are multiple phaser crews.
God, I wish Bermana had had a fucking clue about ships. Or had at least watched Star Trek. Modern Trek destroyed any sense of verisimilitude Trek once had.

Now, Beaker, I've been lurking for enough time to know that you have deeply-entrenched and acid-coated opinions about ... everything ... and usually anything post-TOS gets your ire up. So I'm tempted to just leave this alone. But here goes anyway:

I'm aware of the phaser crews of the TOS era, with the Phaser Control Room actually being featured in ... what was it? "The Changeling?" And while I accept it as canon, and as a decent parallel to modern-day seagoing warships, I don't really understand why such a thing would be necessary on a very advanced starship.

It seems to me that a technologically-advanced civilization such as the Federation should be able to provide for direct-linked firecontrol solutions from control panels on the bridge to the various weapons systems aboard a ship. Even modern-day submarines, for example, fire their torpedoes via a button (used to be a valve) in the attack center in the control room -- not via a command issued to the torpedo room (though maybe Timo or someone better qualified can back me up on this).

Especially when we're talking about linear phaser arrays on something like a Galaxy class starship, which are apparently comprised of thousands of firing elements, any of which can be the source of the beam, what would be the purpose in having a dedicated "phaser room?" Wouldn't it be easier, faster, and cheaper just to have those commands originate from the bridge?

Now, the rationale behind "fire all phasers" actually meaning "you know what I mean -- hit them with everything we've got" ... I can get behind that. And Berman and the New Crew not knowing much about ships ... I'm with you there, too. I just don't think that the lack of a "gunnery station" should be counted as a shortcoming. It struck me as antiquated in TOS, and it would be plainly comedic in TNG. IMO, of course.

::Braces for impact::
 
...I'm aware of the phaser crews of the TOS era, with the Phaser Control Room actually being featured in ... what was it? "The Changeling?" And while I accept it as canon, and as a decent parallel to modern-day seagoing warships, I don't really understand why such a thing would be necessary on a very advanced starship.

It seems to me that a technologically-advanced civilization such as the Federation should be able to provide for direct-linked firecontrol solutions from control panels on the bridge to the various weapons systems aboard a ship. Even modern-day submarines, for example, fire their torpedoes via a button (used to be a valve) in the attack center in the control room -- not via a command issued to the torpedo room (though maybe Timo or someone better qualified can back me up on this).

Especially when we're talking about linear phaser arrays on something like a Galaxy class starship, which are apparently comprised of thousands of firing elements, any of which can be the source of the beam, what would be the purpose in having a dedicated "phaser room?" Wouldn't it be easier, faster, and cheaper just to have those commands originate from the bridge?
...
::Braces for impact::

No impact, friend. But you see, you and I are coming at this from two different perspectives, and the phrase in question is exactly where those two perspectives clash.

Bermaga did not understand the function of and necessity for a crew. The TOS creators essentially translated the functioning of a WWII ship into space. After all, it was what they (and the tv audience of the time, most of whom were, were married to, or were the children of WWII veterans) knew, and what the audience could relate to.

In that world is was not believable that a ship the size of an aircraft carrier could be heavily automated. I doubt it ever occurred to anyone that it should be (and the M5 made quick work of the idea).

So on such ships, weapons were manned. The bridge couldn't just push a button; each phaser needed a crew. So did the torpedo room(s), transporter rooms, etc.

Now of course, the heroes of the story were the officers. I'm sure the names Kyle and Leslie don't appear in any plot synopses. So Star Trek devolved into the pop culture as "Kirk and Spock beam down to the planet and...," without any thought to the crew or to the many times Kirk observed that he was unable to run the ship with a mere handful of people.

And so it was that by the 1980s, writers and suits (Berman will always fall into the latter category) didn't know how a ship should work. If someone pointed out that a ship needed a crew, they might glibly answer that in the 24th century most of the functions of the crew are automated. We can cut to the chase by showing someone on the bridge push a button, rather than having to show a phaser control room.

So say we accept the theory of automation (though why there were a thousand people on the ship, I can't imagine). If that was actually Berman's intellectual approach to the 24th century (as it in fact was to a rather weakened Roddenberry), then he would have thought through the implications of that. And no one would be saying "fire all phasers."

But that wasn't the case. For Berman, there was simply no conception of a crew - not because he had thought it through as "technology unchained," but because it made it easier to cut to the chase. So rather than think it through, he just ignored the implications. "Fire all phasers" sounds cool. So they used it, regardless of its true meaning or connotations.

In other words, you're right. I agree with you. If they truly wanted to show a ship in which most of the crew were not necessary. But Berman and Braga weren't making that statement. They just didn't know any better.
 
Beaker:

Lacking any firsthand knowledge of the behind-the-scenes goings-on of TNG, I have to agree with your interpretation of events. I, too, have come to regard Berman as a "suit," an opinion bolstered by many interviews with folks who actually worked on the shows (Garrett Wang and Dominic Keating spring to mind, though those may not be the best examples). Braga I'm less inclined to write off, as he was responsible for penning some of my favorite TNG episodes and I do respect his talent in this regard. But that's straying from the point anyway.

We did see a good number of the crew of "the D" gainfully employed aboard -- there was a large engineering crew and what appeared to be an equally-large security contingent. Early on, we saw quite a few science teams and specialists, and astrometrics got its day in the sun later on. So I think there was a crew doing the non-story-advancing menial work all throughout ... you and I just happen to disagree about one particular element (phaser crews) ... and even then, we're not really disagreeing about that, but the "why" of how it came about.

I find it interesting, your point about TOS crews being analogous to WWII warship crews because it was more realistic for the time (and the inclusion of the disaster that befell the fleet in "The Ultimate Computer" was a nice support). Indeed, many of the technologies that we will doubtless have in the next 30 years, like flexible, rollable computer displays, will surpass what we saw on TNG, and I would have called them unrealistic and far-fetched had I seen Picard & Co. using them.
 
I would think that Starfleet Academy would teach an officer how to think for themselves :)

This reminds me of an episode of TNG where Picard orders something like forward-starboard and aft-portside thrusters fired. What we see on screen is the ship moving away to one side, but in reality, Picard's order would've just meant that the Ent-D would've spun like a 640 meter top. So I would take that as the helmsman knowing what Picard meant and then executing the order :)

:lol: Was the ship under power or "gliding" when this order was given? If it's the latter, I can definitely see your point.
 
In TOS it seems to change with the needs of the story being told. Some episodes the guy on the bridge hits a button and phasers fire. No need to call down to the "Phaser Control Room" at all. In others, if they need some drama centered around phasers not firing and one of heroes needs to save the day, they send him down to the "Phaser Control Room" to fix the problem with some heroic action.
 
IIRC, the ONLY time this exact command was given in Star Trek was in The Wrath of Khan. And this by Saavik in the simulator.

Kirk's most routine fire commands regarding the phasers was either "Fire phasers" or simply "Fire".

Actually Worf gave the exact same command in TNG's "The Emissary" He was trying to bluff the Klingon Captain.

Depending on the ship firing and the ship recieving, Fire all Phasers could be applicable, TNG style Phasers had lots of angle opportunities. Not to mention if there were multiple enemies or a BIG opponent.
 
IIRC, the ONLY time this exact command was given in Star Trek was in The Wrath of Khan. And this by Saavik in the simulator.

Such a command is first given in TOS "Paradise Syndrome", even though all we ever see is beams coming from the usual location just ahead of the lower dome. Spock first orders "all phasers" locked on the target; Sulu then fires phasers 1 through 4 in sequence, and soon thereafter declares "all" phasers fired. Since there's no result, Spock orders the phasers "rigged for simultaneous firing", which then commences.

Treknologically speaking, multiple phasers are extremely seldom fired at a single target, and indeed it seems to require special "rigging" to do so. This would make no sense if phasers were like the naval guns of the 20th century, each delivering a fixed amount of firepower regardless of what the other guns are doing; such weapons should always be fired so that the maximum number of them are simultaneously hitting the target, unless the intent is to deliver a love pat only.

However, the onscreen evidence would fit a model where the total firepower of the ship is the fixed quantity, and it can be channeled in full through any selected phaser emitter (usually the one that enjoys the best firing angle). Splitting the firepower to two emitters would then mean firing two half-power beams.

In that context, it would make perfect sense for the skipper to specify the emitter to be used if he wants to exploit a particular firing angle, or to specify the sequence of emitters to be used if he wants to give the individual phasers time to cool/recharge. Indeed, phasers in TOS seem extremely prone to overheating: in "Balance of Terror", it seems a routine occurrence that they jam after just a few shots. Such fragility of the weapons would be a good excuse for the man-in-the-loop firing systems: even when the skipper orders the guns fired, the technician down below should have the ultimate veto on the decision, lest the ship blow herself up in a phaser malfunction. (The same goes for the torpedoes, really: a misfire of one on today's warships would kill a dozen people at worst, but a misfire in Trek might vaporize the entire ship. Better to be safe than sorry, and to sacrifice some rate of fire for extra safety.)

Outside these situations, the helmsman, weapons officer or in all likelihood the ship's computer would select the emitter to be used.

Now how would this explain Spock's decision to rig all emitters for simultaneous firing, when using them in sequence didn't help? Well, it is indicated to be a highly nonstandard move. Perhaps it only works in this special application of "cutting a diamond", in exploiting a series of weak spots. The same argument would explain TNG style firing: always just a single beam, from the optimal firing angle, unless the target suddenly displays a weak spot which can then be exploited by adding a second beam such as in "Sacrifice of Angels".

Timo Saloniemi
 
The same argument would explain TNG style firing: always just a single beam, from the optimal firing angle, unless the target suddenly displays a weak spot which can then be exploited by adding a second beam such as in "Sacrifice of Angels".

Timo Saloniemi

Timo, are you referring to the Galaxy delivering that 1-2-3 phaser volley to the Galor as it travels from screen-lower-right to upper-left in one of the battle sequences? Haven't seen that ep. in a while, but I remember this event clearly.
 
I was always amused by the sequence in Errand of Mercy where Kirk is talking to Sulu via communicator. Sulu tells Kirk there are Klingon ships firing on them, and Kirk orders "Fire Phasers!" without even being on the ship, seeing what's exactly going on, or knowing if they have a viable targeting solution on any of the bad guys - and Sulu just... does. :cardie:

Kirk is ... omniscient!!?
 
I was always amused by the sequence in Errand of Mercy where Kirk is talking to Sulu via communicator. Sulu tells Kirk there are Klingon ships firing on them, and Kirk orders "Fire Phasers!" without even being on the ship, seeing what's exactly going on, or knowing if they have a viable targeting solution on any of the bad guys - and Sulu just... does. :cardie:

Kirk is ... omniscient!!?

Omniscient or just... trigger happy?
 
I was always amused by the sequence in Errand of Mercy where Kirk is talking to Sulu via communicator. Sulu tells Kirk there are Klingon ships firing on them, and Kirk orders "Fire Phasers!" without even being on the ship, seeing what's exactly going on, or knowing if they have a viable targeting solution on any of the bad guys - and Sulu just... does. :cardie:

Kirk is ... omniscient!!?

I think that's in "Arena," actually ... and it's the Gorn. He tells him to get out of dodge in "Errand of Mercy."
 
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...And it would make sense that Kirk feels the need to give Sulu clearance to fire back, this being an unclear situation during supposed peacetime and all.

Why Kirk feels the need to specify phasers rather than photon torpedoes or tri-isophasic frammistats is less clear. Perhaps he doesn't trust Sulu's judgement in choosing the right tools for the job? Perhaps photon torpedoes indeed were installed specifically for this episode, and Sulu would have been itching to use those? :p

Timo Saloniemi
 
...And it would make sense that Kirk feels the need to give Sulu clearance to fire back, this being an unclear situation during supposed peacetime and all.

Indeed - Sulu would probably have the authority to make the call while in command but as he was in contact with his captain it made sense to check.

Why Kirk feels the need to specify phasers rather than photon torpedoes or tri-isophasic frammistats is less clear. Perhaps he doesn't trust Sulu's judgement in choosing the right tools for the job? Perhaps photon torpedoes indeed were installed specifically for this episode, and Sulu would have been itching to use those? :p

Timo Saloniemi

Kirk seems to habitually try phasers first then torpedoes, implying the latter are the more extreme weapon. A phaser strike might be more precise and therefore more diplomatic, taking out an enemys guns but not killing many of his crew, whereas a torpedo makes a big boom and therefore is less discerning.
 
Kirk seems to habitually try phasers first then torpedoes, implying the latter are the more extreme weapon.

...Or then that the former are. Perhaps photon torpedoes aren't practical at usual combat ranges because they require a lot of distance before they begin to track efficiently? Or before they become faster than phaser beams? It might be that the (mid 23rd century) phaser delivers more killing power in normal combat than the (mid 23rd century) photon torpedo - which is why Kirk the soldier usually goes for the more deadly alternative.

It's not as if Kirk would often indulge in an exchange of fire without an intent to kill. Picard or Janeway might try to discourage or disarm their opponents with phaser or torpedo fire - but when Kirk yelled his firing orders, the enemy was usually supposed to perish. This might be due to differences in weapons tech, or just plain different doctrines and attitudes.

Kirk might order Sulu to lash out at the Gorn in order to dissuade the enemy. Or then to kill the enemy, as he then engages in a pursuit of vengeance. Are there any clear-cut TOS cases of Kirk firing without deadly intent? ("Balance of Terror" is arguable, but if Kirk merely wanted to drive away the Romulans, he could simply have let them go without a chase.)

Timo Saloniemi
 
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