Finally 'Getting' TMP

[Galileo7]

The biggest change was the rest button of having Kirk once again desk bound, the Enterprise a training vessel and the main crew stuck at the Academy.
It was only three years later. Why not have the crew in the midst of their second 5-year mission and go from there? Much of the same story in TWOK could have been told.
...

Agree, TMP had Kirk back in command of the 1701-Refit ready for another five-year mission with the original crew. WOK seems to not even acknowledge the events of TMP and what we missed happening afterwards. Agree, Meyers should have had Kirk and crew on another five-year mission.

 

[Lance]

I wonder what, in some alternate universe, the second or third movie in a TMP-like series would have been like.

I've often pondered this question myself. I can imagine a story along the lines of "Insurrection" being a logical follow-up to the TMP style. Slightly more action-packed than TMP, but also with a strong philosophical streak, and a focus on 'other worlds' and 'the unknown'.

 

[Arpy]

I've often pondered this question myself. I can imagine a story along the lines of "Insurrection" being a logical follow-up to the TMP style. Slightly more action-packed than TMP, but also with a strong philosophical streak, and a focus on 'other worlds' and 'the unknown'.

INS was NOT about the unknown. Everything about that movie felt tired. The aliens themselves were the most human ones maybe in all the movies.

TMP could have done a followup along the lines of TNG's "Where No One Has Gone Before," or "Q Who", in which we first meet the Borg. Yes, that's right, the bloody Borg. That story was truly about the unknown, about hubris, and about humility - in that Picard showed it and saved his crew. Part of what made the Borg, or the parasites in "Conspiracy," so terrible were that they threatened that evolved (if clunky) TMP/early-TNG utopia they had going.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

I've only read a brief synopsis but perhaps something like Diane Duane's Wounded Sky? The rest of the ST films are mostly good but they're squarely action/adventure.

 

[dswynne1]

INS was NOT about the unknown. Everything about that movie felt tired. The aliens themselves were the most human ones maybe in all the movies.

TMP could have done a followup along the lines of TNG's "Where No One Has Gone Before," or "Q Who", in which we first meet the Borg. Yes, that's right, the bloody Borg. That story was truly about the unknown, about hubris, and about humility - in that Picard showed it and saved his crew. Part of what made the Borg, or the parasites in "Conspiracy," so terrible were that they threatened that evolved (if clunky) TMP/early-TNG utopia they had going.

I wouldn't use the Borg, but I would have used something as a precursor to the Borg: a society that was achieving a utopia, like the Federation, only that they took it further by creating a collective-like society, using a neural network plus a Landru sense of obligation to unity. Kirk and crew run into them, problems ensure, Kirk thinks the problem has been resolved, only to have a doubling down effect that sets the stage for the arrival of the Borg. IMO.

 

[Arpy]

I wouldn't use the Borg, but I would have used something as a precursor to the Borg: a society that was achieving a utopia, like the Federation, only that they took it further by creating a collective-like society, using a neural network plus a Landru sense of obligation to unity. Kirk and crew run into them, problems ensure, Kirk thinks the problem has been resolved, only to have a doubling down effect that sets the stage for the arrival of the Borg. IMO.

That suggests they'd also have come up with the Borg and then held onto the idea for a later series?

Also, we use the Borg as shorthand for why collective consciousness is bad, but that's not necessarily so. The Borg are a Frankenstein story of a new tech being poorly used in a horrifying way. What if there were an uber-mind that individuals could plug in and out of at will? Or a bunch of them? Ones of different magnitudes from infinite billions of people to small groups? What if mind-melds are a common practice of Vulcans at the peak of Pon Farr? It's easy to be ideological about it (i.e. Freedom! Commies! Borg!), but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.

 

[dswynne1]

That suggests they'd also have come the Borg and then held onto the idea for a later series?

Also, we use the Borg as shorthand for why collective consciousness is bad, but that's not necessarily so. The Borg are a Frankenstein story of a new tech being poorly used in a horrifying way. What if there were an uber-mind that individuals could plug in and out of at will? Or a bunch of them? Ones of different magnitudes from infinite billions of people to small groups? What if mind-melds are a common practice of Vulcans at the peak of Pon Farr? It's easy to be ideological about it (i.e. Freedom! Commies! Borg!), but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.

Could the people that Kirk run into be the precursors to the Borg, if left alone, or was it because of Kirk that the Borg would come about? In this, I am trying to indicate that Kirk may have good intentions, but the ramifications of his actions may have had unintended consequences. It is these types of philosophical questions that would be great in a ST setting.

 

[StarLore]

I'm glad you feel that way- I also love TMP. I am always baffled when someone calls it boring, I thought it had a really interesting (albeit simple) plot with an awesome plot twist. I also think the special effects and miniatures were very impressive.

 

[BillJ]

(albeit simple)

Yet that is about as deep as Star Trek gets.

 

[StarLore]

Yet that is about as deep as Star Trek gets.

But on terms of story, it was pretty straightforward. I mean, you could take a break in the middle of the movie and still understand the plot pretty well. I guess the deepness can be attributed to the cinematography and dialogue.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

It's a simple plot but very deep. There's lots of things to mull over, it's a very philosophical piece.

 

[Jedman67]

I watched TMP years ago and found it terribly boring. There were great moments but overall i couldn't care for it.

 

[Kor]

The only Trek film that aspired to greatness.

Kor

 

[RColtrane]

I watched TMP years ago and found it terribly boring. There were great moments but overall i couldn't care for it.

Interesting... I say the same thing, but to the other 5 TOS movies. I can't stant watching II to VI over and over again, they are too bland and cartoonish, but I keep coming back to TMP quite often, that's why I only have this movie on Blu-Ray

 

[mswood]

While there are segments of the Motion Picture that I dearly, dearly love, the whole film feels almost anti trek. This film, well before Star Trek 2009 remained really the only real motion Picture. A film that showed scope. But for me the film is a 180 degree tonal shift from the television show that it is a direct sequel to. TOS was over the top, in almost all portions of the production. From acting, to music, to production design, to humor, to action scenes. Outside of Spock Trek wasn't presented as something that showed a lot of restraint. Tonally the three reboot films are much, much closer to TOS (Undiscovered Country a film with huge flaws is probably the absolutely closest to the actual show of all the films that feature the setting and crew of TOS)

While the same actors are playing people named the same, even the acting and the characters are far, far drier then how they were presented.

And while I do absolutely love films like 2001 (its simply a masterpiece) Andromeda Strain, ect. Those were properties adapting written material, not to the best of my knowledge a continued visual telling of an existing tale.
Heck even it's ending with v'ger is in many ways directly against how similar themed episodes would have occurred in TOS. Now the part of a machine learning all that it can, and still wanting more, i have absolutely no problem with and can be tried directly to other tellings of Trek. But not the idea of man and machine merging to become superior, or the next step of evolution. Trek the show was adamant about the fact that technology, and A.I was only a tool, but nothing that would be part of the evolution of humanity. There are several episodes that absolutely have the characters react quite strongly against that, and its never been shown as a positive effect, more so a horror, if anything.

And since this film is set what, perhaps 4 or 5 years after TOS ended, I don't see time playing a significant factor to have the universe suddenly become muted, or for the crews attitude on machinery interacting or merging with humanity to change. At all.

As for the pacing it absolutely doesn't work for TOS. It doesn't. This isn't a reboot or a reimagining, its a direct continuing chapter of an already established world.

Now put this tale set 80 years later with the much more sedate crew and acting and setting of TNG, and how their growing (though still in a very early stage of acceptance) belief in the role of machine and biology successfully being a possibility, and you would have a tale that is far, far more appropriate for the universe it was set in.

Now I know that Roddenberry's views of humanity, Star Trek and how it's universe should be presented changed very dramatically after the end of TOS, but internally within the universe it makes absolutely no sense for these characters behaviors to change, or for its belief in artificial life to change so quickly in such a short period of time. Absolutely can't buy it. And that tonal shift is why the pacing is so off. Again TOS was presented as a vibrant, colorful rich universe in all aspects of its production, and the only aspect really that remain in the motion picture was the glorious score.

 

[HaventGotALife]

The Motion Picture is of its time. Its ambition was 2001: A Space Odyssey. Its graphics were from the first Star Wars film (A New Hope), Its costumes are horribly dated by the time. And I LOVE this movie.

Star Trek, as I said earlier, is the wonderment of what we would find in space and the prism of that imagination, used to tell the story of the internal journey, the human adventure. Kirk, Spock, and McCoy became a well-oiled machine in The Original Series. By the time of this movie, they are off their game. Kirk, obsessed with doing what he does well, is at-odds with the would-be Captain Decker. McCoy is telling him to back off or the mission will fail. Spock is disappointed and humbled by not completing the Kohlinar. He is still able to save this mission by having a connection to V'Ger and the knowledge to balance the engines, and the relationships, aboard the Enterprise.

The internal journey, in this one, is to find purpose and meaning for your life. Spock, Kirk, and V'Ger are going through the same struggle. V'Ger wants to know its God in order to find purpose. Spock is curious about V'Ger, wants peace and the clarity of logic, acceptance from himself and his society. Kirk wants the Enterprise, and the excitement of commanding a Starship. All start from a place of melancholy, because they lack purpose. That's the human adventure.

The mystery of V'Ger is fleshed out as the unknown, what we would find in space. We do not know if there is a ship at the heart of the cloud, if it is intelligent, if the crews is millions, or thousands, 100 feet high. It has tremendous power for destruction, but we don't know what it is, where it comes from, what its motivations are. We assume from the contact of Epsilon 9, that we cannot take a defensive posture, but we're taking shots in the dark. They truly are in the unknown. And the tension builds, until Ilia becomes a gateway, the manifestation, of V'Ger's voice. Otherwise, how would we communicate with it? It's a throw-back to some of my favorite Trek. The stakes are high--earth and the Enterprise itself--but we still have to enter the cloud, take the risk of destroying the Enterprise, communicate with V'Ger, try to find a way around its intentions, and complete the mission--save earth. Not a shot is fired. Outside of the Klingons launching torpedoes, we don't see a single weapon. We aren't going to overpower this enemy--it's too strong. Instead, we manipulate it. We ask it questions. We bluff. We try to get to the heart of the cloud, to unravel the mystery, and we do not kill it. We give it what it needs, and it dissipates. Kirk is back in command, Spock finds out what V'Ger is and finds his purpose fulfilled aboard the Enterprise, and they ride off into the sunset, like any great western.

This is my second favorite of the Star Trek films, all 12 of them. I would like to see them attempt another movie like this, but it probably would kill the movie series. And that just makes TMP that much more precious.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Outside of the Klingons launching torpedoes, we don't see a single weapon.

To nit, we also saw the Enterprise fire a PHOOOOOTONNNNN TORRRRRPEEEEEDOOOOO, but not a V'ger.

 

[HaventGotALife]

To nit, we also saw the Enterprise fire a PHOOOOOTONNNNN TORRRRRPEEEEEDOOOOO, but not a V'ger.

True.

 

[ian128K]

Growing up, I didn't really like the movie, but I like it more and more the older I get. It's not in my personal headcanon—because I feel like the later movies make more sense if TMP didn't happen—but I find it's a very enjoyable movie. In some ways it's like a fan film; a really really beautiful fan film.

 

[mswood]

To nit, we also saw the Enterprise fire a PHOOOOOTONNNNN TORRRRRPEEEEEDOOOOO, but not a V'ger.

And we see V'Ger fire multiple times at klingons, we see V'ger destroy the Epsilon station, We see V'Ger fire twice at Enterprise, and we see V'Ger make many attacks towards Earth.

But in truth Trek film hasn't had a ton of weapons fire especially from the Enterprise itself. Search for Spock has what one photon Torpedo, Voyage Home none, final Frontier once against "God", Undiscovered County several photons against the Bird of Prey. Into Darkness, does the ship ever fire weapons of any sort? I don't remember. That leaves the primary weapons use wrath of khan where we have two segments of weapons fire, and Star Trek 2009 where it has one segment with weapons fire.