Final Reflection onscreen

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If, for example, a Strange New Worlds (the show) episode writer wanted to use The Final Reflection-style Klingons in a script, would they need John M. Ford's permission to do so? Would he be owed any royalties?

I'm not talking specific character names or anything like that, just the general thrust of the gist of Klingon culture as Ford portrays in the novel. Linenames, klin zha, Thought Admirals, that type of thing.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

It's tie-in fiction. CBS owns it lock, stock, and barrel. They wouldn't owe him any money. They might give him an acknowledgement in the end credits, the way Marvel movies and series do, but there's no contractual requirement for that.

I'll add to that, I'd love to see klin zha on screen. And Emanual Tagore and Makropyrios (though the latter was created by Vonda McIntyre and only referenced in tFR).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

IIRC, klingonaase was actually spoken onscreen once, but it was only in OGAM (JG Hertzler's character calls someone a tokhe straav - 'willing slave').

I'd just love for some SNW writer to say the hell with it, I don't care how much it contradicts onscreen continuity, work it the out for yourselves, and just go all out with TFR material in writing an episode.

 

[KRAD]

As @Allyn Gibson said, tie-in fiction writers have no rights to anything they create for Trek fiction. If President Nan Bacco showed up on Picard, I would be entitled to no compensation or acknowledgment.

While it's true that screenwriters do get (minor) compensation if a character they create is used in a future production, it's also true that screenwriters have a union and have negotiated with productions companies to get these perks.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They might give him an acknowledgement in the end credits, the way Marvel movies and series do, but there's no contractual requirement for that.

I'm sure they'd do it anyway.

 

[KRAD]

I'm sure they'd do it anyway.

I'm sure they wouldn't. They've used stuff from the tie-in fiction before (like Sulu's first name and that Number One is an Illyrian) without giving any thanks to the authors who came up with it.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Someone remind me again, how is it that the Vesta-class CG design has limitations? I have read about the issue before in this forum, but I cannot find the relevant post.

 

[David Mack]

I'm sure they wouldn't. They've used stuff from the tie-in fiction before (like Sulu's first name and that Number One is an Illyrian) without giving any thanks to the authors who came up with it.

I'll second this. Keith is correct — the current producers have adopted many elements from the books over the last few years without even the least bit of acknowledgment or credit.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I'm not talking specific character names or anything like that, just the general thrust of the gist of Klingon culture as Ford portrays in the novel. Linenames, klin zha, Thought Admirals, that type of thing.

IIRC, one of the early first season Discovery episodes referenced the Black Fleet.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

IIRC, one of the early first season Discovery episodes referenced the Black Fleet.

I just remembered, the Warrior's Anthem did as well. DS9's "Soldiers of the Empire".

Hear! Sons of Kahless.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill.
Our lives burn short and bright,
Then we die with honor and join our fathers in the Black Fleet where
we battle forever, battling on through the Eternal fight.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Even if the producers wanted to acknowledge Ford (or any other ST novelist) for something promoted to canon, they might not know who originated it. There is, pound for pound, probably more ST tie-in fiction than exists for any other TV or movie franchise.

And besides, Ford is beyond caring about royalties, and has been for many years. For the same reason that we don't have any definitive word on tunes for a lot of the songs in How Much For Just the Planet.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'll second this. Keith is correct — the current producers have adopted many elements from the books over the last few years without even the least bit of acknowledgment or credit.

Even if they don't give you guys the credit you deserve, the true fans always know.

 

[Tallguy]

As much as I dream of an adaptation of The Final Reflection, if I'm being honest with myself that comes second to seeing How Much for Just the Planet.

Damn it, now I want an ice cream soda.

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

Even if the producers wanted to acknowledge Ford (or any other ST novelist) for something promoted to canon, they might not know who originated it. There is, pound for pound, probably more ST tie-in fiction than exists for any other TV or movie franchise.

And besides, Ford is beyond caring about royalties, and has been for many years. For the same reason that we don't have any definitive word on tunes for a lot of the songs in How Much For Just the Planet.

Pound for pound, I think Star Wars has Trek beat in terms of tie-in additions.

 

[KRAD]

Keith is correct.

I have no direct response to this, I just like seeing Dave say it.

Pound for pound, I think Star Wars has Trek beat in terms of tie-in additions.

I don't think that's true, especially given the sheer tonnage of Trek material that was released between 1995 and 2005 when there was always at least two fiction books per month. Though SW is catching up now.....

 

[Smiley]

Pound for pound, I think Star Wars has Trek beat in terms of tie-in additions.

For adult novels, Trek definitely has more, and it's not even close. Star Wars and Star Trek may be much closer in comics, and Star Wars has the edge on YA and younger titles and video games.

As Keith says, SW is currently publishing quite a few more books per year than Star Trek. They are both putting out quite a bit of core TV content each year.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Pound for pound, I think Star Wars has Trek beat in terms of tie-in additions.

Well, "pound-for-pound," it might, given that there are a lot more SW novels that had their initial release as publisher hardcovers, whereas a good many ST novels, if they exist in HC form at all, do so only as SFBC HC reprints of books initially released as MMPBs (and I will say I like the SFBC reprint of Vonda's Enterprise: The First Adventure I scored in a used book store much better than the MMPB first edition it replaced in my library, and not just because the DJ has the complete cover painting)

 

[Tuskin38]

IIRC during the initial PR run after the Klingons were revealed, it was mentioned some of the writers and Klingon actors read The Final Reflection.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Even if the producers wanted to acknowledge Ford (or any other ST novelist) for something promoted to canon, they might not know who originated it. There is, pound for pound, probably more ST tie-in fiction than exists for any other TV or movie franchise.

Pound for pound, I think Star Wars has Trek beat in terms of tie-in additions.

I don't think that's true, especially given the sheer tonnage of Trek material that was released between 1995 and 2005 when there was always at least two fiction books per month.

For adult novels, Trek definitely has more, and it's not even close. Star Wars and Star Trek may be much closer in comics, and Star Wars has the edge on YA and younger titles and video games.

Maybe I'm misreading @IRW Bloodwing 's point, but I read that as them saying that SW has more items from tie-in material that were added into on-screen works ("additions"), in keeping with the general subject of this thread, and as direct follow-up to @hbquikcomjamesl 's claim that ST has more tie-in fiction. (ie - "ST may have more, but SW has more things that ended up on screen".)

Granted, I have no idea if that claim is true or not, since I don't read SW novels. But that seems to be the claim being made, at least to me. (Although it is of course possible that I'm misinterpreting.)

 

[Tuskin38]

Yeah Star Wars has a lot of secondary canon elements (books, games, comics etc) brought into shows/movies since Disney bought LucasFilm.

Pre-Disney canon had some as well, but less so, and mostly just in the Clone Wars CG series, but the prequel movies also had a few things brought in from the EU.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Legends_elements_in_the_films